#28 - Solving America's Mass Shooting Crisis: Examining Causes and Solutions Ft. WhickTV

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,560 Welcome to the purple political breakdown. 2 00:00:04,560 --> 00:00:07,560 Yes, there is a problem. 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:12,200 Even if it was only one or two mass shootings a year, that would be a problem. 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:16,300 That freedom is the freedom to do what you ought to do, not the freedom to do whatever 5 00:00:16,300 --> 00:00:17,800 you necessarily want to do. 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:23,520 And so you have the freedom to carry this gun, which means you ought to be good if you're 7 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:24,560 going to use it. 8 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,720 Do think something that's inherently valuable is purpose, right? 9 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:33,040 My thing is, especially for like people in America, one of the biggest reasons why mental 10 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:37,680 health is so bad is I do think people have a lost of values. 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,040 They have a lost of meaning. 12 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,640 People are trying to find type of meaning in their life. 13 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,900 They're trying to find some type of significance of their life constantly. 14 00:00:45,900 --> 00:00:49,720 Do you want a great website like this? 15 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:55,160 This is my podcast website where I direct the audience to come to watch the content, 16 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:59,240 listen to the content, read the blogs and much, much more. 17 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:04,920 If you want to have your own customizable podcast website, then join my affiliate link 18 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:11,200 in my description to sign up for something called PodPage and they can help you customize 19 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:17,120 an easy podcast website for your personal podcast. 20 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,280 Sign up to get a discount now. 21 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,880 Again, use the link in my description to join PodPage now. 22 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,080 Are you enjoying today's podcast episode? 23 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,440 I really hope you do. 24 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:35,060 And I really hope you enjoy the fact that I have an amazing guest talking with me and 25 00:01:35,060 --> 00:01:37,680 having this great discussion. 26 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:42,880 If you as an individual personally have your own podcast and maybe you want to have great 27 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:47,480 guests on your podcast as well, well, I got a deal for you. 28 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,280 In my description, there is a link to something called PodMatch. 29 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:56,400 Make sure to join that link through my affiliate link so you can sign up to get matched up 30 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,960 with other podcast hosts and podcast guests. 31 00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:05,500 So you make sure you are never missing an episode without a productive guest to have 32 00:02:05,500 --> 00:02:08,080 an amazing conversation with. 33 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,600 PodMatch is similar to any other kind of matching site for the most part. 34 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:13,680 And it's super easy. 35 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:20,240 You just $6 a month and you can have a guest for each and every podcast episode that is 36 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,980 tailored to your specific topic. 37 00:02:22,980 --> 00:02:29,120 So again, join the link in my description and join PodMatch now. 38 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,400 Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. 39 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,040 We are back at it again today. 40 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:39,680 And unfortunate news, we had one episode that is lost in the archives because I forgot to 41 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:40,680 unmute Mike. 42 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:45,560 So you will never hear that episode, but hopefully we can kind of touch upon a few things that 43 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,880 we discussed in today's episode. 44 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:53,520 And it should be an interesting discussion as we plan to talk about the mass shooting 45 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,880 problem in America and whether or not there is even a mass shooting problem in America. 46 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:02,680 And of course, I have myself, Riddell and my co-host Jonathan. 47 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:08,360 And today we have a guest, WickTV, and he's going to come on, have the conversation with 48 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,320 us and it should be very, very interesting. 49 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:16,000 So I'm going to start out, let you introduce yourself and tell the people what you're about. 50 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:17,000 Sure. 51 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,400 Well, first of all, thank you for inviting me on this. 52 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,160 I'm very excited to be here. 53 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:27,960 I listened to a few of your podcasts and I enjoyed the conversation. 54 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:29,800 So it's good to be a part of it. 55 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,200 My name is Wick, or that's what I go by on the internet at least. 56 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:39,120 And I do, I generally host political debates. 57 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,000 It's a cross ideological space, right? 58 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,640 Where we bring together people from the left and the right and the center and try to kind 59 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:49,320 of get a conversation going about topics of the day. 60 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,800 Yeah, that's what I do. 61 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:52,800 That's who I am. 62 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:53,800 And here we are. 63 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:58,440 Yeah, it was very interesting because I have taught a couple of your shows. 64 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:03,320 Of course, I've seen a lot of very interesting and some heated debates. 65 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,960 I saw a good number with Desti on it. 66 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:10,560 Desti was kind of the gateway to your channel, of course. 67 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:17,040 And obviously my podcast here is one to kind of bridge those conversations as well, find 68 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:18,600 nuanced solutions. 69 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:23,800 And especially I am not fond of how political bias kind of toxifies people to the point 70 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,960 where they're not even able to have these conversations. 71 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:31,920 So for someone else who's doing something very similar, I might as well ask what kind 72 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:37,560 of got you into doing that type of content and why do you think it's important? 73 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:45,080 Well, first of all, it's always important to know what people actually think, right? 74 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:50,200 There is this tendency that we have to shut down conversation or to extricate ourselves 75 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:56,640 from groups or communities that we feel don't represent us or we don't like or have views 76 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,640 that are kind of the polar opposite of ours. 77 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,680 I think that's a mistake. 78 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:05,480 It becomes impossible to know what other people are thinking and what other life experiences 79 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,720 are being had and how events are being interpreted by other sides. 80 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:16,760 And even if I still think that the people who are politically opposed to me are nefarious, 81 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,520 it is still important to know what they actually think rather than a caricature of what they 82 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:21,520 think. 83 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:27,960 Now, what got me into it initially, right, was I never watched podcasts. 84 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:33,360 I was never a big YouTube guy or anything like that. 85 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:40,120 I happened to be listening to some music on YouTube and was very tired, didn't know what 86 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:41,120 was going on. 87 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:42,120 Hold on, my phone is being whipped. 88 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:43,120 Okay. 89 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:48,960 And basically got to a prime Chi debate, came up on my feed. 90 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:53,720 I don't know why, but I saw like 12 people in a box and I was like, what the hell is 91 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:54,720 this? 92 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:55,720 I clicked on it out of curiosity. 93 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:56,960 They were talking about a subject. 94 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:02,640 I forget the subject, but I remember feeling like these people are dumb and wrong. 95 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,960 They are uneducated on what they're talking about and they're simply wrong. 96 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,960 All of them, all sides here are just wrong. 97 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:15,680 And the host of that show, prime Chi, was like, well, we do call ins all the time, so 98 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,480 if you want to be on this show, come on in. 99 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,320 I said, okay, I'll come on in. 100 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,200 And so that's how I got introduced to this space. 101 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:28,680 And yeah, basically I was mad that everyone else was wrong and so I needed to come in 102 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,200 and tell them they were wrong. 103 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,040 Here we are. 104 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:34,040 I respect that. 105 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:35,040 I respect that. 106 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:40,160 That's definitely how I feel sometimes, especially starting this podcast, especially when you 107 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,520 hear like so many different point of views and you hear them and you hear both sides 108 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:49,360 and you notice that you have some good points, but you're getting so emotional that you're 109 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:56,200 going down a terrible rabbit hole right now and there's no progressing in the conversation. 110 00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:01,560 You just stalemated to a I want to get a got you moment on the other person and that doesn't 111 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,160 really solve anything. 112 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,240 So it's a shame. 113 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:06,240 It's a shame. 114 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,640 Do you feel that way, Jonathan, back in college? 115 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:10,320 I haven't been in college in a while. 116 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:11,480 Do you feel that way? 117 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,320 I feel that way on two fronts, actually. 118 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,440 I feel that way in college. 119 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:21,200 They're not really, I mean, bringing it in right into that, which you need to know with 120 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:28,960 the overruling, colleges are not really higher education establishments anymore. 121 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,400 They're not institutions for education at all, more like indoctrination. 122 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,360 At least that's been my experience. 123 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:35,920 I'm sure there's other colleges. 124 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:42,280 I'm on a relatively big campus and yeah, I mean, people aren't very interested in my 125 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:49,480 perspective on things, especially when they share it in most of the ways that conservatives 126 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,160 share it, just like you're dumb and you're stupid. 127 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:57,080 Like I totally sympathize with Mr. Wick on the big panel discussions. 128 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:01,880 Like I guess there's this show called the Whatever podcast that's blowing up right now. 129 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:07,400 And all it is is these this one conservative guy they bring on with a panel of super lib 130 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,080 women and they just own them. 131 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,200 But they do it in such the wrong way. 132 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,880 Like the whole premise of that show is to like it's like a five hour long podcast, as 133 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:17,420 I understand. 134 00:08:17,420 --> 00:08:22,560 And the whole show is just for like the two minute clips of some poor girl just getting 135 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,300 decimated. 136 00:08:24,300 --> 00:08:26,080 And that really it does no good. 137 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:30,840 Those poor girls are probably I mean, they probably don't care because they feel as if 138 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,440 they're correct. 139 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:37,880 But it doesn't actually look good for the conservatives or even the center of people 140 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,720 who are on that podcast, because it just makes them look mean. 141 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:46,520 And that's not someone you want to have a nuanced or even a pleasant conversation with. 142 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:47,520 Exactly. 143 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:48,600 I definitely agree. 144 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,680 And honestly, the podcast like that, I feel like nothing is said. 145 00:08:52,680 --> 00:08:57,360 I feel like it's just talking and no points are really being made. 146 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,080 And I try to watch one of the episodes for them. 147 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:04,320 And I'm like, you guys are not going anywhere with this conversation. 148 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,880 It's just a bunch of like drama going on. 149 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:11,020 And as they approach it with closed minds, they don't approach it in like, oh, I might 150 00:09:11,020 --> 00:09:12,020 be wrong in this area. 151 00:09:12,020 --> 00:09:15,100 They're like, oh, I know I'm right in this area. 152 00:09:15,100 --> 00:09:17,480 And so they just have no interest in changing their minds. 153 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,720 Anyways, I mean, it's entertaining for people. 154 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,700 So, you know, of course, people are going to like it. 155 00:09:22,700 --> 00:09:27,000 So before we get into our what you need to know segment, so everybody's up to speed. 156 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:28,400 I'm going to read off a review. 157 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,640 And this is from Andy Cohen. 158 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:35,920 They said, I was nervous about listening to this podcast, but I'm glad I found it. 159 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,020 There's a legit attempt to be balanced. 160 00:09:38,020 --> 00:09:42,060 And that's a brave thing to do to try these days. 161 00:09:42,060 --> 00:09:45,080 Very nice delivery, thoughtful and dang, you do a nice job. 162 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:46,560 Keep it up and thank you. 163 00:09:46,560 --> 00:09:47,560 Appreciate it. 164 00:09:47,560 --> 00:09:52,240 Of course, you know, every time, you know, someone appreciates what we're doing here 165 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,240 on the podcast, I definitely want to shout you out. 166 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,600 But if you guys want to talk crap about me, I'll shout you out too. 167 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,480 So make sure to leave a review. 168 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,240 Well, there's the five star, four stars. 169 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:02,380 OK, too. 170 00:10:02,380 --> 00:10:05,020 And I'll make sure to shout you out a future episode. 171 00:10:05,020 --> 00:10:08,040 So let's get into the what you need to know segment. 172 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,920 What is going on currently in America that we need to talk about? 173 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:16,200 Well, here's a couple of things and we'll dive into which one finds you guys the more 174 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,400 interesting. 175 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:23,120 The more V. Harper ruling has been rejected by the Supreme Court. 176 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,760 And this is when I talked about the more V. Harper situation, that's actually one of our 177 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:32,240 more popular episodes when I was like, man, this is a horrible idea. 178 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:36,800 And I'm glad they were like the Supreme Court agreed to that sentiment. 179 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:41,120 Some other kind of interesting news is the Justice Department concluded that the Jeffrey 180 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:46,920 Epstein's death was enabled by negligence and misconduct by prison staff. 181 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:47,920 Wow. 182 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,680 Shocking, of course. 183 00:10:50,680 --> 00:10:58,000 The UK to invest 26 million dollars in A.I. medical tools just kind of elaborates the 184 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,760 evolution of A.I. in society. 185 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:07,340 The Supreme Court ruling against affirmative action, especially for institutions like Harvard. 186 00:11:07,340 --> 00:11:12,400 And I got one more that I forgot to mention earlier before we started that I just saw. 187 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:20,040 And it's apparently Google and maybe Facebook and Instagram banning news in Canada. 188 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:27,840 So it was due to an online news act that the famous Canadian president passed. 189 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:33,220 And a lot of these social media companies are thinking about banning the news that these 190 00:11:33,220 --> 00:11:36,120 Canadians can see from their platforms outright. 191 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,680 So a lot of interesting things going on in the world. 192 00:11:39,680 --> 00:11:41,840 The address is located in Canada. 193 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:42,840 They won't be able to see news. 194 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,840 Am I understanding that correctly from Google? 195 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,560 Yeah, they won't be able to see it completely. 196 00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:50,720 That sounds good. 197 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:52,360 Yeah. 198 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,160 Apparently the online news act that what's his name? 199 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:56,160 Trudeau. 200 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:57,440 They say Justin Trudeau. 201 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:58,440 Yeah. 202 00:11:58,440 --> 00:11:59,440 Prime Minister of Canada. 203 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:00,440 Yeah. 204 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:01,600 Fun guy. 205 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:07,280 So apparently he passed an act that said tech giants would have to pay news outlets for 206 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,700 clicks that direct people to their platform. 207 00:12:10,700 --> 00:12:13,760 So yeah, Google is not happy about that. 208 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,160 So it's a financial thing. 209 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:17,160 OK. 210 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:18,160 Hmm. 211 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:19,160 Yeah. 212 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,720 Google, Facebook, Instagram is not happy. 213 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,720 Big one, in my opinion, is what Elon wants to do with Twitter when it comes down to it, 214 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:31,760 because Twitter is like the primary news outlet for a lot of these younger individuals. 215 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,240 So what do you guys think? 216 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,240 Let me hear some thoughts about what's going on. 217 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:43,000 I am very interested, me personally, just because of my current position in life with 218 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,800 this overturning of affirmative action. 219 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:56,680 And just from my perspective, there was a large swath of scholarships that I could not 220 00:12:56,680 --> 00:13:04,920 apply for because of my pallor of skin, let alone sexual orientation. 221 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:10,560 I was excluded from thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars of scholarships just 222 00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:11,760 because of that. 223 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,800 Fortunately, I was still admitted, so I don't know what this overturning will do much for 224 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,400 scholarships. 225 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:26,840 But just in general, universities are not very friendly to people who, you know, obviously 226 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:31,440 in the Harvard case and specifically against Asian folks because they do much better on 227 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,800 many tests than even white people do. 228 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:40,920 But I think this is a good thing, you know, judging on the content of people's character 229 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:41,920 and their merits. 230 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,560 I saw a tweet. 231 00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:45,240 I don't necessarily want to say the person's name. 232 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:50,240 I don't remember it accurately enough anyways, who specifically tweeted out in response to 233 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:56,560 this saying that black people will not be able to thrive in a meritocracy. 234 00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:58,600 That's why we needed affirmative actions. 235 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,360 And for me, that's like an offensive thing because I know many. 236 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,800 I mean, one of my my dad's colleagues is the president of a university. 237 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,120 And I don't know. 238 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:12,680 I just don't get how someone can legitimately say that. 239 00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:16,960 It's just it's just so astounding to me. 240 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:23,280 This is it's an it's an interesting issue. 241 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:29,680 This case again, which I believe was Harvard versus the Students for Fair Admissions. 242 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:37,320 That was a case that overturned a 2003 case, right, that made it OK to have racial preferences 243 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:38,320 and admissions. 244 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,160 Scholarships, it's not going to touch. 245 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:46,440 Scholarships has nothing to do with the case, and I don't think it's going to really be 246 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,960 changed in that way. 247 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,400 This isn't a new concept, though, right? 248 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:59,680 California back in the 90s, the late 90s, Prop 209, they banned racial preferences. 249 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:05,480 And after they did, people of color started succeeding more. 250 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:12,480 The dropout rate was astronomical before the change and after the change, it dropped significantly. 251 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,360 Graduation rates rose. 252 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,120 Great GPAs for people of color rose. 253 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:22,600 It had a lot of really good outcomes for these communities. 254 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:32,800 And whereas I think that there is something to be said about making sure that people have 255 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:42,000 equal access, there is a tendency for people to overreact and try to force these kind of 256 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:52,360 percentages of attendance and admissions and get a certain amount, a quota, if you will, 257 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,440 of different people from different backgrounds and things. 258 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,400 And I, yeah, I've never been a proponent of that. 259 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:04,280 I think that's the wrong way to combat systemic issues and things like that. 260 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,440 The way to fight against racism isn't with more racism. 261 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,120 We need a solution that is more colorblind, frankly. 262 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,400 I know it's not popular to say, I know it's not nice to say, right? 263 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:15,960 But it's just true. 264 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:17,920 I think that this is a good thing. 265 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:22,800 Now the next thing they need to do, though, and they should do, ban legacy admissions. 266 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:27,600 Stop that shit too, because that also isn't a meritocratic system. 267 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:33,680 And so when colleges give points to legacy admissions, that is also a problem that needs 268 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,040 to be solved. 269 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,360 And we need to get rid of that too. 270 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:45,440 I find the legacy one a little bit more interesting, especially when those individuals, some individuals 271 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:52,240 from these institutions, because I went to a private school and one of the big ways that 272 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,560 this private school would get funding is from donors. 273 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:01,240 We would there's a whole job you could do on campus where you can call people, say, 274 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:05,480 hey, donate to this institution so we can get X, Y and Z. 275 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,880 So I'm curious on how that would go about when it comes down to legacy admissions for 276 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:15,480 these people who have a long line of people, family members that went to said institution. 277 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:22,320 And then they made it a complete stop saying, OK, I'm not going to just put you in my institution 278 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,120 just because you have this last name. 279 00:17:24,120 --> 00:17:26,760 I know your family gives me a lot of money. 280 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,520 So that type of incentive will be will be tough. 281 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,040 But to be fair, this is a more of a private institution situation. 282 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:37,680 So inherently, the laws that govern it would be different anyway. 283 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:45,200 What that said, you know, coming from a man of color, I'll be honest in terms of affirmative 284 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:46,760 action. 285 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:53,440 Initially, the implementation I understood to kind of even out the playing field, especially 286 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:59,520 back in the day, to get people of color, people in the more impoverished communities up to 287 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,440 speed and try to level them out with the rest of the America, of course. 288 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:09,280 But as of right now and how it's implemented, especially when it comes down to higher education 289 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:17,000 institutions, I agree it's it's not fair and it doesn't really help these communities. 290 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:22,280 We've seen the statistics on how you're forcing people, for example, to go to Harvard. 291 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:26,160 That is probably not even suited to go there. 292 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:27,160 They do very poorly. 293 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,360 And it just brings percentages way down. 294 00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:36,460 So I'm curious to see how this goes afterwards when it comes to the higher education situation 295 00:18:36,460 --> 00:18:39,980 following to potentially the workplace. 296 00:18:39,980 --> 00:18:47,380 Do we think that they should also make it to kind of ban affirmative action for the 297 00:18:47,380 --> 00:18:48,800 workplace as well? 298 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,640 That's a good question. 299 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:57,320 I think I could see a stronger argument for it being placed in certain jobs and things 300 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:03,320 and given that we do have data, right, that, for example, if you have a black sounding 301 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:08,040 name, you're more likely to be rejected in your application. 302 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:12,240 You know, we can argue why that is, whether it's racism, whether it's other reasons, but 303 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,320 we know this data exists. 304 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:22,440 Now, whether or not we want to fix that through trying to put in for affirmative action, I 305 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:23,440 don't know. 306 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:24,440 I don't think it works. 307 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:25,440 I don't think it's solving the problem. 308 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,440 And that's that's the at the end of the day. 309 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:28,440 Right. 310 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,480 We could have the best intentions in the world. 311 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,720 But if what you're doing doesn't actually solve the problem, I don't think it's very 312 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:35,720 helpful. 313 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:42,940 Again, if this were 1983, we could have a conversation that it might be necessary. 314 00:19:42,940 --> 00:19:45,360 But this is 2023. 315 00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:48,320 It is no longer as necessary. 316 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:58,900 And so, yeah, I don't like basing things on race, whereas I do realize that race does 317 00:19:58,900 --> 00:20:04,040 play a factor, whether we want it to or not, and how people treat you. 318 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:10,120 It shouldn't nor should we reify it by continually legislating it into reality. 319 00:20:10,120 --> 00:20:13,160 So that's my thoughts. 320 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,160 Fair enough. 321 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:15,160 Fair enough. 322 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:19,400 And Jonathan, in terms of the scholarship thing, I will say this, that I definitely 323 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,200 understand where you're coming from. 324 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:26,480 But, you know, Alina, with what WIC said, a lot of these scholarships are made by people 325 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,120 that want to give it to certain people. 326 00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:29,520 So you can't really tell these people. 327 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:30,520 Oh, sure. 328 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:31,520 What I do. 329 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:39,560 The little caveat with that is there any scholarships specifically for white straight males? 330 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:40,720 Do they exist? 331 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,200 I am so curious if they exist. 332 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:44,200 That's what I've seen. 333 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:45,200 I looked through. 334 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:50,040 I'm not going to say what my university's name is, but I looked through every pretty 335 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:55,180 much I might have missed a couple, but I looked through every single because I applied for 336 00:20:55,180 --> 00:20:57,200 every single one that I can. 337 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:03,360 And I totally understand that there are certain scholarships that are like by people's name 338 00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:07,680 that are for, you know, people who lost family members, who lost their fathers, these sorts 339 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:08,680 of things. 340 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:15,520 And when I get to a scholarship that's specifically for like those who identify with different 341 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:20,560 species of individuals and only people of that, like, well, if we're going to do that, 342 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,520 like at least give me one. 343 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,320 Like come on now, guys. 344 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:30,040 And you know, I understand the ones that are for, you know, helping people who really need 345 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:36,240 help because as I mean, with the help of other people, you know, I can afford college and 346 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:37,960 that's a blessing. 347 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,480 And I don't discount that. 348 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:46,080 And I appreciate highly those that deserve and got the good grades and did the work to 349 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:47,480 get into college. 350 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,080 And they need a little bit of help. 351 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,280 And we should help those kind of people. 352 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:52,280 One hundred percent. 353 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:53,280 I totally agree. 354 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,160 Because if I was in that position, I would want the help and I would be upset if I didn't 355 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:57,360 get the help. 356 00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:03,940 But when it comes to boosting numbers artificially and saying like, oh, you are excluded even 357 00:22:03,940 --> 00:22:07,220 though you're perfectly qualified for the scholarship and deserving of it. 358 00:22:07,220 --> 00:22:13,240 Or this admission or this job position, whatever it might be, when we're excluding more qualified 359 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:19,760 people, I think that's where the problem lies. 360 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,940 If I may. 361 00:22:23,940 --> 00:22:31,000 To move off of scholarships only a little and back to kind of admissions, there is something 362 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:37,760 that the the ruling recently didn't touch, right? 363 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:42,080 But it is going to be something that is going to be the hot topic coming up in the next 364 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,440 five, ten years. 365 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:49,480 The disparity of gender roles in colleges and universities. 366 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:54,320 Men are attending at lower and graduating, to be clear, at very, very low rates. 367 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,760 And there's going to be a rate, I should say. 368 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:03,080 And there's going to be this temptation to kind of give this and some colleges are actually 369 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:04,360 talking about this now. 370 00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:10,800 Like this is in discussion now of making it more attractive to men and doing this kind 371 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:15,400 of affirmative action for men to get men into higher education and universities because 372 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,720 they're just not going anymore. 373 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,520 The roles have reversed in most fields. 374 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:22,840 There's a few exceptions, right? 375 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,080 Like engineering, things like that. 376 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:30,640 Yeah, there is going to be this temptation to do this kind of affirmative action to men 377 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,480 to get these numbers up. 378 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,000 And I think, again, that's the wrong way to do it. 379 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,000 We cannot tackle this problem. 380 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,440 And it is a problem to be clear, right? 381 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:46,000 It is a problem to be clear because there is no greater indicator of future financial 382 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,760 success than whether or not you have a college degree, rightly or wrongly. 383 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:50,760 That's just how. 384 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:56,520 I would say I would I would actually push back on that for a second, actually. 385 00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:02,560 I thought it was high school diplomas really is the strongest people who drop out of high 386 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:07,400 school have a lot of financial difficulties later on in life. 387 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,740 And that's not indicative, I would say, of education, but of sheer commitment, right? 388 00:24:11,740 --> 00:24:14,120 They can't commit to doing something that they're supposed to do. 389 00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:16,040 That's also probably true, right? 390 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,360 So these aren't contradictory things like. 391 00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:24,800 So yes, of those who graduate from high school, like you can. 392 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,520 It's a two tiered path or people who are just have a high school degree. 393 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:33,480 But then you have people with a college degree and they have much more earning potential 394 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,240 than someone with just a high school high school degree. 395 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,960 And the person with a high school degree has more earning potential than the person without 396 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:41,960 a high school degree. 397 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:47,960 But in both cases, the best indicator is the college degree for financial success. 398 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,760 Very interesting. 399 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,000 I will be curious. 400 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,520 And in terms of the male affirmative action situation, I agree that thing is not going 401 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:56,520 to work. 402 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,360 You can't force guys to want to go to school if they don't want to go to school. 403 00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:02,040 At the end of the day, it should be that that simple for people. 404 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:09,000 You can't force people to have get an education if they don't want to get an education. 405 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:16,680 With that said, I am curious in regards to the to the to the metric of success. 406 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:24,680 Whole years down the line as the social media entrepreneurship wave and the statistics around 407 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:30,400 it keeps on growing, especially considering the most inspiration that people are getting 408 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:37,100 at a young age are now from social media content creators and people like from podcasts. 409 00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:43,320 It may or may not be a good thing, but I am curious to see how those numbers will look 410 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:44,780 later down the line. 411 00:25:44,780 --> 00:25:46,120 Will it be bad for society? 412 00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:47,680 Will be good for society? 413 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:54,920 My current stance is as long as people kind of frames becoming a content creator as something 414 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,120 anybody can do. 415 00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:00,840 And it's different from becoming an athlete. 416 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:06,640 Everybody knows that only very special people become an athlete. 417 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:07,920 Only very few. 418 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:14,600 You are constantly told if you do not grind, if you don't even make six foot three, you're 419 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,600 not going to the NBA. 420 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:21,840 But when it comes to social media, the difference is that everybody thinks that they all can 421 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,120 be a social media content creator. 422 00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:36,000 And that false sense of I would say guarantee of a potential huge job could be damaging 423 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:37,400 or could be inspiring. 424 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,800 I'm curious, of course, down the line. 425 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,760 I do want to ask you something, Jonathan, and I don't really want to touch upon the 426 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,880 Google stuff because Canada is just crazy. 427 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:48,880 That's my sentiment. 428 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:49,880 Canada is crazy. 429 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,920 I don't know what to do with that country anymore. 430 00:26:52,920 --> 00:27:03,920 But from a conservative viewpoint, what do you think about Morvey Harper being rejected? 431 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,440 Because I honestly think this is one of the worst things I've ever seen. 432 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,400 So what do you think about it? 433 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,760 So I was trying to brush it off a little bit. 434 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,000 I want to understand they got this correct. 435 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,920 It's a gerrymandering, correct? 436 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,160 It has to do with gerrymandering and the GOP was attempting to gerrymander and that got 437 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,300 brought up to the Supreme Court. 438 00:27:24,300 --> 00:27:32,500 So apparently, and I believe it's South Carolina, but there are Republicans over there was big 439 00:27:32,500 --> 00:27:37,080 into something called the independent state legislative theory. 440 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:44,160 And that basically the idea is it gives them a whole lot of power, especially when it comes 441 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:45,680 to elections. 442 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:52,640 And like you said, when it comes to gerrymandering and it doesn't and their kind of proposal 443 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:59,760 is that state courts, governors, the other branches, they can't say anything. 444 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:00,760 You guys can't touch me. 445 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,360 You guys can't tell me what to do. 446 00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:06,720 So I'll be able to do whatever I want in this state and you guys can't tell me what to do. 447 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,960 So that was the basic principle, very, very simply for people who are listening. 448 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,440 And the Supreme Court is like, no, are you crazy? 449 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,480 Like, are you are you insane? 450 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,160 No, I would agree with that. 451 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:26,000 That's I don't think like so we had this discussion before, like should a state be allowed to 452 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:31,000 become this kind of for lack of a better term cesspool of ideology, whether it's California 453 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:36,040 with liberals or Texas and Florida with the conservative values, like should the states 454 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,520 be allowed to do that? 455 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,120 And I would I would lean on this like I said before, yes, if they want to do that, they 456 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:42,120 can do that. 457 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:47,000 But you can't coerce your people into doing it through something like gerrymandering through 458 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:52,120 trying to get this conglomeration power and forcing because that's tyranny and that's 459 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,320 antithetical to what the United States did. 460 00:28:54,320 --> 00:29:01,700 So I would oppose coercing anybody into any kind of decision, whether it be conservatives 461 00:29:01,700 --> 00:29:07,080 doing it or liberals doing it. 462 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:12,480 Any thoughts, Wick, before we move on to the main topic about this one? 463 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:21,120 I would say that in general, as a concept, I think that states rights, while important, 464 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,560 should be overridden by the federal system. 465 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:28,200 But again, I don't know much about this case. 466 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,080 No worries, no worries. 467 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:35,920 I will say that, you know, at the end of the day, I'm glad it was overturned. 468 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:43,560 I did read something saying that they should have when it comes down to this specific case, 469 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,760 this should have been nipped in the bud, like at the very, very, very beginning. 470 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,440 Like they shouldn't even have went to the Supreme Court. 471 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:55,040 So the fact that it did, there may be some consequences in terms of what South Carolina 472 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:56,480 does moving forward. 473 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,600 Well, we're going to have to see how that kind of turns out. 474 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:06,760 But with that said, let's get into the main topic of the day when it comes to mass shootings. 475 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:11,400 I guess the very first question, I'm going to start off with Wick, of course, very first 476 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,180 question. 477 00:30:13,180 --> 00:30:17,400 Does America have a mass shooting problem? 478 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,600 Yes, there is a problem. 479 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,320 Even if it was only one or two mass shootings a year, that would be a problem. 480 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:32,120 I think that with the level of violence and gun violence specifically that we see in America, 481 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:37,680 but not just gun violence, but violence in general, it is concerning. 482 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,200 And we do need to do something about that. 483 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,280 I think we do absolutely have a mass shooting problem in America. 484 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:46,280 Yes, we do. 485 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,440 All right, Jonathan, what do you think? 486 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,280 I don't disagree. 487 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,920 We have a terrific amount of violence here. 488 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:03,760 I think it's interesting to see how people, so I'm curious to see how you both will define 489 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:04,840 mass shooting. 490 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:09,640 But when I think of mass shootings, I do not distinguish entirely. 491 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:14,800 There's a little bit of a contextual and there's a little bit of a difference in general when 492 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,480 you look at something like a school shooting versus simply the mass violence you see by 493 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:20,480 a gang. 494 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:25,920 But a lot of times those shootings also include, I believe the limit now is six people to be 495 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,200 considered a mass shooting. 496 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:33,280 And that happens routinely almost every other week in Chicago, in New York and these big 497 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:34,280 cities. 498 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:40,200 So, yeah, I would say we certainly do have a mass shooting problem. 499 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:41,200 Certainly. 500 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,280 How we deal with that will be one thing. 501 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,400 Yeah, very much agree. 502 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:51,200 And I have also seen a lot of varying definition in terms of what a mass shooting is. 503 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,160 From what I've seen, you've seen six. 504 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,360 I've seen the general consensus as being around four. 505 00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:58,920 I saw four. 506 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,080 So around four or more deaths is a good number. 507 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,920 And I looked up some statistics when it comes to mass shootings. 508 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,080 Over 200 mass shootings so far this year. 509 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:12,720 Amazing. 510 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:17,480 Over 600 mass shootings each year of the last three years. 511 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:23,600 And when they did a kind of comparison statistics compared to other countries and in terms of 512 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:31,280 the quota of four, they said the U.S. has one hundred and one mass shootings from 1998 513 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,120 to 2019. 514 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:39,000 And the second country is Russia, which was like 25. 515 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,400 And the rest of the countries all have single digits. 516 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,880 So like the United States compared to everybody else when it comes to four or more deaths 517 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,120 from that time period is it's ridiculous. 518 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,320 It's absolutely ridiculous. 519 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:58,160 Why do you why do we think America has that type of problem, especially when you compare 520 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:04,480 to other countries, other more developed countries at the very least? 521 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:09,660 I mean, that's the question, right? 522 00:33:09,660 --> 00:33:13,140 The easy answer is guns. 523 00:33:13,140 --> 00:33:14,140 We have more. 524 00:33:14,140 --> 00:33:18,880 There's more access, easier access in other countries to guns. 525 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:23,360 And so it's just easier to use this weapon and this tool to enact the violence that you 526 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,920 want to enact. 527 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,360 While that's an easy answer, I don't think it's a complete answer. 528 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:34,140 I don't think it's a I think it's a comfortable answer, but it's not something that really 529 00:33:34,140 --> 00:33:37,740 fully describes what's going on in America specifically. 530 00:33:37,740 --> 00:33:44,080 We have a combination of multivariate. 531 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:49,560 You know, it's like a Gordian knot of problems, I guess, is the best way I can say it. 532 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,680 If you pull on one thread, there's a bunch of other threads that are connected to it. 533 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,760 Gun access is a major one. 534 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:56,760 Right. 535 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,880 Then we have the problems with health care and mental health care. 536 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:06,580 Specifically, we have a problem with our culture in general of being it being OK to do violence 537 00:34:06,580 --> 00:34:08,440 against people you don't like. 538 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:09,440 Right. 539 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:15,920 And there's this general malaise and despair that we're seeing manifesting it through the 540 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:21,880 opioid crisis and a lot of cases, a rise in suicides among the lower classes. 541 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:22,880 Right. 542 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,280 And also a rise in mass shootings and violence and things like that. 543 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,180 This is a this is a problem. 544 00:34:30,180 --> 00:34:34,520 If it wasn't if we snapped our fingers and took all the guns away. 545 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,000 Yes, the mass shootings would go down. 546 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:38,000 Yes would go down. 547 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,920 But we would still have all these other problems and it would still be more violent than these 548 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:44,200 other countries. 549 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:50,120 So while I am for sensible gun control, like I think red flag laws are a great idea and 550 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:51,120 a great thing. 551 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:52,120 That's all you shake. 552 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,440 But I understand this is something we'll disagree on. 553 00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,520 I don't think I think it's we can't ignore these other factors, too. 554 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:05,880 If we want to really solve this problem in America, we need to acknowledge that we have 555 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:13,580 a problem culturally with being OK with violence, a celebration of violence that we just need 556 00:35:13,580 --> 00:35:15,780 to tone down. 557 00:35:15,780 --> 00:35:22,840 So before I let you go, Jonathan, we will go through every single prong of the aspects 558 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:28,880 of the reason why we have mass shootings, the solutions on potentially fixing mass shootings. 559 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,680 But is there anything else you want to add? 560 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:33,680 Me specifically? 561 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,040 Oh, Jonathan. 562 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:39,280 Oh, about which part in particular? 563 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,680 Why is America have such a machinist? 564 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,680 So why does America have? 565 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:45,680 OK, OK. 566 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:46,680 Beautiful. 567 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:52,240 So firstly, I have a deep. 568 00:35:52,240 --> 00:36:01,240 Iyer towards the comparison of America to other countries because we're so much bigger. 569 00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:02,640 It's it's ridiculous. 570 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:09,640 So I was in in a grad grad level course where people were trying to compare the violence 571 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:15,280 in America to the UK and the UK has about 66. 572 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:21,800 They're about roughly roughly 20 percent of our population and they have less violence 573 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:22,960 than we do. 574 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,800 And so they said, oh, Britain is better than America because they have less violence, but 575 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,320 there's no adjustment for population there. 576 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:35,600 So I'm curious in the website that you saw that compared us and I don't I don't I don't 577 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,860 disagree with the notion that America has more violence. 578 00:36:38,860 --> 00:36:40,000 We do. 579 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:44,640 But a lot of times people blow it drastically out of proportion because they don't adjust 580 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,560 for population. 581 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:55,480 I would say we have. In a massive population and a lot of our populations that commit the 582 00:36:55,480 --> 00:37:03,440 most of these violences are condensed down into specifically the inner cities of areas. 583 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:08,000 So we have a whole bunch of people and we have pressed them all into a very, very small 584 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:14,440 location and there have been studies where they do this with sort of mice and rats and 585 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:19,360 they get a very large enclosure and they have all these rats or mice spread out and they're 586 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:20,720 totally fine. 587 00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:26,080 And then after a while, if you slowly start like cooping them in smaller and smaller areas, 588 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:32,280 their aggression rate goes through the roof and they become very, very, very, very violent 589 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:36,200 with one another because just the just the proximity. 590 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,940 And I don't like to compare humans to other animals because we're different. 591 00:37:39,940 --> 00:37:45,160 But there is something to be said about these what's called in criminologies, these hotspot 592 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:51,080 crime areas where there's just a whole lot of people and they're typically more impoverished 593 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:56,160 and they just commit more crimes on another another prong of one of the reasons I think 594 00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:03,840 we have these just violence problems in general is what Mr. Wick here said. 595 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,120 We just have for some reason we glorify it. 596 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:13,520 I'm very concerned when I hear people talk in this very, very like admiring way about 597 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:14,920 like serial killers. 598 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,760 Like for some reason, all of the young people are obsessed with serial killers and they 599 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:24,600 all watch these very violent programs, very violent TV shows and it's totally glorified 600 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,320 on that same axis, though, is what I like to call the Disney effect. 601 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,900 As of my whole generation, they grew up watching these Disney Channel shows where there's no 602 00:38:32,900 --> 00:38:35,060 consequence for people's actions. 603 00:38:35,060 --> 00:38:39,000 The whole premise of a lot of these shows is young kid gets in trouble and then they 604 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,460 laugh about it at the end of the show. 605 00:38:41,460 --> 00:38:43,460 And so they grew up watching these programs. 606 00:38:43,460 --> 00:38:51,440 They grew up watching these very violent shows and they just have a misconception of reality. 607 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:56,520 I see it daily now when I work at this court that I work at of people coming in and the 608 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,160 judge ask him, why did you do it? 609 00:38:58,160 --> 00:38:59,160 And they just said, I don't know. 610 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,080 I didn't think it was that big of a deal. 611 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,160 And they like assaulted somebody. 612 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,800 They stole something. 613 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,920 And when we apply that in a broader context and people getting affiliated with gangs and 614 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:14,660 they just have no conception about consequences in the world, they don't think about it. 615 00:39:14,660 --> 00:39:15,660 They just do it. 616 00:39:15,660 --> 00:39:16,660 They just act. 617 00:39:16,660 --> 00:39:22,240 And I think it's like you said, a Gordian knot of those kind of issues is why we have 618 00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:24,880 such a mass shooting problem. 619 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:25,880 Yeah. 620 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:30,920 I mean, I definitely see where you're coming from when it comes down to the population 621 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,560 and when you're comparing America to other countries. 622 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:39,040 I've made the case multiple times with people who make these very blanketed statements compared 623 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:40,040 to other countries. 624 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:46,240 But I do think there's something to be said other than the kind of confined spaces of 625 00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:50,960 these impoverished areas, which I think you can basically find anywhere, of course. 626 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:56,760 But the circumstances that I like to look at that's a lot more popular, it seems in 627 00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,760 America is those individual cases of these individuals who go in these public spaces 628 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:07,040 and let it go free, whether it's a school or whether it's like a public location. 629 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:12,800 Like I feel like every time there's a and I, oh man, I don't want to say this, but I 630 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:17,960 feel like every time there's like a holiday event, there's a mass shooting. 631 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:23,160 So it's like every single time it's like people are just crowded in this space and someone 632 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:29,040 wants to rain a parade on everybody and just wants to take it out on society and do this 633 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:30,040 set action. 634 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:31,040 Go ahead. 635 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,000 So I'm curious to know if either one of you can can correct me, but I was trying to do 636 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,320 some investigation into this. 637 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,040 So I'm not 100 percent certain about this. 638 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,960 I just want to put that disclosure, but I was reading into it a little bit and I did 639 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,360 find petitions sent to the Connecticut government. 640 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:55,280 I think when they were these were citizens, I'm not sure exactly if they were doctors 641 00:40:55,280 --> 00:41:01,680 or not, but they had lists and lists of like four pages of people who did what you were 642 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:07,160 describing one lone gunner going into schools, going into public areas and just lighting 643 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:08,160 it up. 644 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,300 And they they attach them all to antidepressant medicines. 645 00:41:12,300 --> 00:41:15,240 So I know this is a very hot topic. 646 00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:19,280 People who do that, so I'm curious to see if somebody is more knowledgeable on the subject. 647 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:25,540 I can't speak to the antidepressants side of it, but I can say that I think that we're 648 00:41:25,540 --> 00:41:29,280 doing a disservice to the medicine in general. 649 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:35,040 I think I think I can I can say that we are doing a disservice in general by lumping all 650 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:36,560 mass shootings into the same thing. 651 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:37,640 I don't think they are. 652 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,800 I think there's a fundamental difference between things like gang violence, where a bunch of 653 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:47,080 people get shot, much people get killed to a school shooting, where someone comes in 654 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:52,760 and starts shooting up a school to a mall or a holiday event or someone driving their 655 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,380 car into a parade. 656 00:41:54,380 --> 00:41:57,240 These are they all result in death. 657 00:41:57,240 --> 00:41:58,240 Right. 658 00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:03,440 They are all symptoms of violence, but they are unique expressions of it. 659 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,040 And I think that they have very different causes. 660 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:07,280 I do too. 661 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,240 Or very there's very different ways to tackle these things. 662 00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:14,960 Like there's a different way to tackle gang violence than there is to tackle the school 663 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:20,120 shooter or the lone gunman that goes to the mall or goes up on a hotel and shoots into 664 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:21,600 a concert crowd. 665 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:28,400 And the conversation, unfortunately, gets washed away because all these things is the 666 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:29,440 same thing. 667 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,160 And I don't like that. 668 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:35,480 I think this is actually something that the conservatives have wrong, because usually 669 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,600 my side is the one who when someone's talking about school shooters, they'd be like, oh, 670 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:40,600 gang violence. 671 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:42,520 They're two totally different things. 672 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:43,820 So I completely agree with that. 673 00:42:43,820 --> 00:42:45,040 And you're totally right. 674 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,200 We do handle gang violence very differently. 675 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,440 Like I said, I'm not like explicit. 676 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:51,440 I'm not a professional. 677 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,640 I was trying to do some some research. 678 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:58,600 And so I actually have I created a citation list that I can send you, Riddell, if you 679 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,720 would like to post in the description, I was doing a little bit of looking. 680 00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:02,720 We're going to credit you all. 681 00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:03,720 Don't worry. 682 00:43:03,720 --> 00:43:04,720 We got you. 683 00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:05,720 Yeah. 684 00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:09,600 I'll finish that up and send it over to you if you want to do that. 685 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:15,480 But you know, and this is anecdotal from, you know, me reading the news when it comes 686 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:20,960 out with the people like the Uvalde shooter, people, all these different people. 687 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:25,320 One of the things we see a lot is they are on some sort of psychotropic medication. 688 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,540 So they're obviously I'm not blaming the psychotropics. 689 00:43:29,540 --> 00:43:32,120 I have my own thoughts and opinions on them. 690 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,040 But what I am saying is they obviously are not in the correct mental space because they're 691 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:40,760 trying to supplement this this incapability, this whatever it is, depression, anxiety, 692 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:42,800 something wrong with their minds. 693 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:43,800 Yeah. 694 00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,880 And then I then they're getting done. 695 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,420 I mean, yes, but this is just trivially true. 696 00:43:49,420 --> 00:43:53,520 People who go and shoot up a school or do all these things are not in their right mind. 697 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:54,520 I agree. 698 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:55,520 Yeah. 699 00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:56,520 Yeah. 700 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:57,520 Like, yeah. 701 00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:01,600 But but I think that you're I think the implications that you're saying here were, oh, they're 702 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,360 they're all on psychotropic drugs and you say, well, I don't think they're the cause. 703 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:10,040 But the implication is there that all the psychotropic drugs may be contributing to 704 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:11,040 this. 705 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:12,040 I don't think that's the case. 706 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,840 I think it's more of a fact that they're they're all they something is wrong with them. 707 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:16,840 Yeah. 708 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,680 Well, so let me let me let me let me can I. 709 00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,440 So what I think is, you know, obviously, they're they're trying to supplement something. 710 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,080 And what do psychotropic drugs do? 711 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:26,080 Right. 712 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,920 They release additional chemicals into an already imbalanced brain. 713 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,760 And you know, there was all these studies that did come out that I have read that prove 714 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:38,920 that, you know, psychotropic medication and they didn't they didn't really do much. 715 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:43,480 And a lot of it was based on faulty science, science that they were hiding these big pharma 716 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,640 companies for a long time. 717 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,080 And they actually did not much. 718 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:48,080 They didn't do much of it. 719 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:52,520 If there's no distinguishing features between the placebos and the psychotropics. 720 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:57,160 But the underlying assumption was that there is a, quote unquote, balanced level of chemicals 721 00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:58,160 in the brain. 722 00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:59,800 But that's not true. 723 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:01,680 There isn't a balanced level. 724 00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,040 There's nothing that we know that like, oh, this is the certain amount of all the different 725 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:06,440 chemicals in your brain. 726 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,640 So we have people that are unbalanced and we're just throwing in another cocktail of 727 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:10,640 drugs. 728 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,520 And then there I agree with you, they're getting guns. 729 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:14,520 And that's a problem. 730 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,560 And obviously, someone who goes on a shooting spree is not in the right mind anyways. 731 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,620 It wouldn't necessarily matter. 732 00:45:19,620 --> 00:45:24,480 But I think it's creating additional people who wouldn't be quite at that limit, wouldn't 733 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:28,300 be on the cusp of actually committing this very violent act. 734 00:45:28,300 --> 00:45:29,300 And they push them over. 735 00:45:29,300 --> 00:45:30,300 Exactly. 736 00:45:30,300 --> 00:45:33,760 So Jonathan, I do have a question. 737 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:41,880 And I in the future, I want to have a whole podcast episode on mental health and drugs 738 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,960 and big pharma, a whole podcast episode we're going to have talking about that. 739 00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:52,760 But my question for you is if they don't take these antidepressant drugs, do you believe 740 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:58,440 that they won't be crazy enough to do these heinous actions? 741 00:45:58,440 --> 00:45:59,440 So. 742 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:08,080 Because I think even if you want to make the argument that it potentially enforces said 743 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:12,800 bad action, there's a threshold of said going over the edge. 744 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:13,800 Yeah. 745 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,880 And do you think they don't go over that threshold if they don't take those drugs or they go 746 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:17,880 over anyway? 747 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:18,880 So it doesn't really matter. 748 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:25,240 So well, I would kind of bolster what I was saying a little bit as well with another aspect 749 00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:27,760 that we see with these these individuals. 750 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,680 There's a lot of them don't have fathers. 751 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,320 And I think I feel you. 752 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,880 I think when you have someone on medication. 753 00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:37,880 Right. 754 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,460 So I had a friend who was on this. 755 00:46:40,460 --> 00:46:42,480 He was he was on these antidepressants. 756 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,720 He was on these medications. 757 00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:49,640 And he said when he started taking the medications, he heard voices and he ended up committing 758 00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:55,040 suicide because the voices when he was taking these medications told them that he should 759 00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:56,040 take his life. 760 00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:00,280 His father, but his father was there all the time and always would help him when those 761 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:05,580 things came because like I was saying before, we really don't know what a balanced brain 762 00:47:05,580 --> 00:47:06,760 of chemicals looks like. 763 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,020 So a lot of times they can be helpful for people. 764 00:47:10,020 --> 00:47:14,120 And if you think that you need the help, if you think you need those, that's great. 765 00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:19,280 But I think there's better options than the psychotropic medications. 766 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:24,280 So now as soon as his father left, he was gone for a weekend and he was doing well. 767 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:25,280 He ended up committing suicide. 768 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,120 He ended up taking his life. 769 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,560 Some people, I think it would push them over. 770 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:32,080 Some people, I don't think it would. 771 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,660 I think it depends on a lot of other circumstances. 772 00:47:35,660 --> 00:47:38,160 Do you have a good family support system as well? 773 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:43,480 The people who are on the psychotropic medications who obviously have these unbalanced chemicals, 774 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,480 whatever balanced may look like they have something wrong with the kind of fix and they 775 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,060 don't have good support systems. 776 00:47:50,060 --> 00:47:54,880 Then those are the people who I think it probably will and possibly does push over the edge. 777 00:47:54,880 --> 00:48:00,520 If they have those support systems, I think it turns out better for people. 778 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,640 I just fundamentally disagree with you. 779 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:03,640 I don't know. 780 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:04,640 I haven't looked into this. 781 00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:06,640 So this is just my intuition. 782 00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:11,520 I'm just speaking based on what I can observe from medication in general. 783 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,360 I've never taken medication like that. 784 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:22,260 So I have no experience, but I do have an uncle who has been on various types of medication. 785 00:48:22,260 --> 00:48:26,680 When he is off his meds, he is fundamentally worse. 786 00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:32,160 All these symptoms that you speak of, they don't go away on the meds, but they are mitigated. 787 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:37,880 And yes, the reason he doesn't take them sometimes is because it makes him feel like a different 788 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,280 person and he doesn't like that. 789 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,160 So it scares him to take it in a lot of ways. 790 00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:47,940 If I may finish, if I may finish just real quick. 791 00:48:47,940 --> 00:48:57,040 What I'm worried about is I think that these people are acting out in spite of their medication 792 00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,800 rather than because of their medication. 793 00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:04,000 It shows that medication, and I would agree with you on this, it shows that medication 794 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:05,600 isn't enough. 795 00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,560 You can't just medicate people and expect it to be okay. 796 00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:09,960 You just can't do that. 797 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:11,920 You need those support structures that you talked about. 798 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:22,000 You need that kind of infrastructure of community and family that is lacking in America. 799 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:27,080 You can do a whole podcast on this, on the lack of communal infrastructure that we have 800 00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:28,080 in modern America. 801 00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:29,240 It's just done. 802 00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:30,960 It's gone. 803 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:36,120 The places where we meet up, COVID killed it almost even deader than it already was. 804 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:40,480 It was still dying before COVID, but COVID and lockdowns just killed that anyway. 805 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:46,440 I just worry that you're pointing to the fact that they're all on these meds or a lot of 806 00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,740 them on these meds and I'm just taking any of your words for that. 807 00:49:49,740 --> 00:49:54,120 Even if that's true, I don't think that's sufficient evidence to count doubt or aspersions 808 00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:58,200 on the effectiveness of mental medication. 809 00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:03,240 I think people who are in medication, take your meds, gang. 810 00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:10,260 I'm not trying to say, I think I want to distinguish here my own personal position. 811 00:50:10,260 --> 00:50:16,560 I'm not an entirely pro medication, but that's my personal. 812 00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,800 Practically speaking, a lot of people do need them. 813 00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:21,160 Like you said, you have family. 814 00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:28,560 I also have family and I have a particular cousin who really does need his medication. 815 00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:33,320 He is two totally different people, but like you said, sometimes people who take them, 816 00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,880 it helps with one part and it hurts in another part. 817 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,300 It's kind of like finding a balance between that. 818 00:50:39,300 --> 00:50:47,960 That's why I'm not convinced that medication is this big savior that it's made out to be. 819 00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,560 That said, we're kind of getting aside from the point. 820 00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:51,560 Sure. 821 00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:52,560 Yeah. 822 00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:56,080 We are getting aside from the point, but I think that we can look at how life was for 823 00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,640 people who had these conditions before the medication. 824 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:03,080 We can look at how life is now after it's massively improved. 825 00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:08,920 A lot of them, these people who are committing these balances are still, they don't, I think 826 00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:09,920 it's a both thing. 827 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:11,440 I think it's a combined. 828 00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:15,440 It's not just because they're on medication and it's not just because they have poor family 829 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:20,120 conditions because there's plenty of people that don't have a good family that don't 830 00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:21,120 commit mass violence. 831 00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,320 There's a lot of people that do take medication that don't commit violence. 832 00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:30,520 I think it is the imbalance of the brain, the added chemicals, the added pressures of 833 00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,800 having a very bad system of support. 834 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,320 A lot of times these people were bullied in school. 835 00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:42,600 A lot of times it's just this evil cocktail of different problems that all add together. 836 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:46,160 I think, so I'm going to defer to what Mr. Rogan said on the subject. 837 00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:50,280 We have a mental health crisis disguised as a gun crisis. 838 00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,720 We have a lot of people, we have a mental health crisis in America and I think that 839 00:51:53,720 --> 00:51:58,680 bleeds over into these violent actions because people that are imbalanced of the brain, a 840 00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,020 lot of times they don't regulate emotions well. 841 00:52:01,020 --> 00:52:07,000 So when these kids that are bullied, they feel beaten down by life, a natural reaction 842 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:11,440 of the human condition is to fight back, to be aggressive and retaliate. 843 00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:17,600 Then when we have so many guns in America that we do, that's just the option of choice. 844 00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:23,800 I'm not entirely convinced that if guns run away, there still wouldn't be a lot of violence. 845 00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,240 This is something that we see in London. 846 00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:32,920 I'm going to break my own rule here and compare it to another country. 847 00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:38,160 In Britain, I was just there, they don't have a whole lot of gun violence. 848 00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,680 That much is true because they don't have a lot of guns. 849 00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:43,040 But they do have a lot of acid bath attacks. 850 00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:44,640 They have a lot of knife stabbings. 851 00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:47,400 They have an astronomically high theft rate. 852 00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:51,400 If you walk down a city street in London and you look in the car windows, at least where 853 00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:56,200 I was in Shepherd's Bush, almost every single vehicle has one of the wheel lines. 854 00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:01,240 They have a lot of blocks because their vehicle theft rate is astronomically high in that area. 855 00:53:01,240 --> 00:53:05,040 When you remove one thing, it doesn't mean that that problem will go away. 856 00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,020 I think if we remove guns, violence would not go down. 857 00:53:08,020 --> 00:53:09,020 It would just shift. 858 00:53:09,020 --> 00:53:15,000 It would just shift to something else, whether it be bats, whether it be a lot of other things. 859 00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:20,000 I do want to put a pin in the anti-depressing conversation because I do think that could 860 00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,600 be a conversation for later. 861 00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:27,240 I do fall in line very similar to what Wick was saying. 862 00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:32,360 I do think it's more of in spite of situation when it comes down to anti-depressants. 863 00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:34,200 I don't think there's a necessary. 864 00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:39,360 I do see the logic that you're saying, Jonathan, in terms of how anti-depressants affects the 865 00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:44,200 mind and it can ruin certain chemical imbalances, of course. 866 00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:51,280 However, I don't think in terms of the data, as you said, doesn't really show for or against 867 00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,880 in this specific situation. 868 00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:59,720 With that said, because the conversation of anti-depressants and mental health is, like 869 00:53:59,720 --> 00:54:05,440 I said, the conversation for another day and the aspect of taking away all guns is completely 870 00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,120 unrealistic. 871 00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:13,560 One solution out of the many that we're going to talk about, since we're on the conversation 872 00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:18,440 of mental health, is mental health checks. 873 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:24,000 My thing is I do think mental health is definitely a big factor in terms of mass shootings. 874 00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:30,080 That is a huge component that I also agree with in terms of why it happens, more specifically 875 00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:35,760 with the situations we were referring to with the school shootings, with the public shootings, 876 00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,040 mall shootings, et cetera, et cetera. 877 00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:45,720 It's a character, it's an individual who is completely ruined in terms of his mental health, 878 00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:54,640 her mental health, and even it doesn't help when these situations also have terrible culture, 879 00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,960 no values because the family home is probably torn to pieces. 880 00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:05,600 A lot of very bad negative factors play onto why they are how they are. 881 00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:12,200 Even though the situation of fixing this type of environment is way more nuanced, it's almost 882 00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:17,840 impossible to find a direct solution, one thing that can help with mental health is 883 00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:19,560 more mental health checks. 884 00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:24,960 In my personal opinion, I feel like mental health should be something, especially in 885 00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:29,320 like institutions like education or even the workplace, that should be incentivized a little 886 00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:30,600 bit more. 887 00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:37,060 I do think that, especially when you're young, you go to physicals, you go to a doctor checkup, 888 00:55:37,060 --> 00:55:44,480 you check your overall health, but I don't think it's necessarily normalized to, in addition, 889 00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:46,480 add upon your mental health. 890 00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:59,340 I'm not really sure in terms of medical care, how therapy or seeing a psychiatrist or whatever 891 00:55:59,340 --> 00:56:04,000 follows a line with the type of benefits you get from whatever care you have. 892 00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:08,920 I'm not really sure how that goes about. 893 00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:13,800 I do think that it's a good thing that currently in terms of like online, I'm sure you guys 894 00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:16,400 both have seen ads like BetterHelp, right? 895 00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:18,720 You see it like on YouTube ads all the time. 896 00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:22,680 They're trying to really incentivize this thing in terms of, hey, you probably should 897 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:23,960 get therapy. 898 00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:30,440 So with that said, incentivizing normalizing mental health checks, checking on students, 899 00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:36,320 checking on workers, checking on individuals in general should be something that should 900 00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,080 be implemented way more. 901 00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:40,600 So what do you all think about that? 902 00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:42,080 I don't necessarily disagree. 903 00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:44,220 The devil will be in the details, right? 904 00:56:44,220 --> 00:56:45,880 What does this implementation look like? 905 00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:46,880 What do these checks look like? 906 00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,720 What are the consequences if you fail a check? 907 00:56:49,720 --> 00:56:53,920 If you were in high school and you go through one of these mental health checks, right, 908 00:56:53,920 --> 00:57:00,160 that we're talking about, and it turns out that, oh, wow, there's something really wrong. 909 00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:01,160 What happens, right? 910 00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:03,440 Are you taking out a school system? 911 00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:09,600 What kind of restrictions or if any are put on you? 912 00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:13,880 Like what access to resources do you now have that you didn't before? 913 00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:19,280 I would want like to, like if I was to weigh in on a plan like this, I would need to know 914 00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:20,480 these details, right? 915 00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:25,600 Because I can imagine a scenario where this is used in a very kind of tyrannical way, 916 00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:30,920 a sort of way to kind of shut down wrong thing and bad thing, right? 917 00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:34,440 I can absolutely imagine that to be the case depending on how it's implemented. 918 00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:40,960 However, I can also see where it's desperately needed, that we need more access to and more 919 00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:49,600 ability to identify early people who are having a crisis or potentially having a crisis and 920 00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:51,180 then getting the help they need. 921 00:57:51,180 --> 00:57:54,920 And so again, it really depends on the input, the devil's in the details is all I got to 922 00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:56,640 say about that. 923 00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:58,920 So there's definitely two ways I would go about it. 924 00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:03,160 But before I kind of elicit that, John, then I'm going to let you go ahead and tell you 925 00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:05,440 your thoughts about it. 926 00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:11,520 Yes, I really agree with Wick on this one, the devil is in the details. 927 00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:15,480 And I'll bring up something that a lot of people, so some people might know. 928 00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:19,980 There was recently, and I had to actually do this for a class of mine, we had to comment 929 00:58:19,980 --> 00:58:24,160 on regulations that were being passed down by one of the federal government agencies. 930 00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:31,960 And so I found this one, it had to do with these online, particularly psychological assistance 931 00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:36,040 such as BetterHelp and other online places. 932 00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:42,440 And there's a group of people, probably not astronomically large, but large enough that 933 00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:45,120 they had to do this regulation. 934 00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:50,960 These kind of sketchier online pharmacy kind of places, these psychological help, they 935 00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:56,080 would prescribe medication through the internet medium. 936 00:58:56,080 --> 00:59:01,640 And young people were getting their hands on medication and overdosing in a large enough 937 00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:04,840 quantity that they did have to propose regulations. 938 00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,800 So I am a huge proponent of people getting the help that they need, right? 939 00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,360 Just like Mr. Wick said, but the devil is in the details. 940 00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:14,680 When they find out that they have these kind of conditions, what are they going to do afterwards? 941 00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:22,280 Because what we can't do, especially with things like BetterHelp, other online psychological 942 00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:27,360 counseling kind of websites, we can't just be prescribing medication only. 943 00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:31,720 We have to give them actual resources like Wick said. 944 00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:33,960 What are we going to do to help them afterwards? 945 00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:37,360 I definitely agree that I'm pro counseling. 946 00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:44,640 I'm not always pro psychiatry because you guys, I'm sure, are aware of, based on what 947 00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:49,440 I said before, my thoughts about certain things and that comes with psychiatry. 948 00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:50,960 I am very pro counseling. 949 00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:54,160 People need to talk their problems through because talking your problems through will 950 00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:57,360 help you figure out what your problems necessarily are. 951 00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:01,240 So I am very pro counseling and that sort of thing. 952 01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:04,400 So yeah, obviously, I think people need to get the help that they need. 953 01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:10,720 If I may just kind of give my experience with therapy, I was in the military for six years 954 01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:14,240 and one of the services they offered was free therapy. 955 01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,280 There was a stigma attached to it. 956 01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,760 They were always trying to combat that stigma. 957 01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:22,800 There's always a fear like, oh, my security clearance would be in jeopardy if I go to 958 01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:26,360 the therapy and they find something wrong with me. 959 01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:30,360 But I was in a situation where I was very depressed. 960 01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:34,840 I wasn't happy with my life and I decided to give it a try. 961 01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:35,840 Best decision of my life. 962 01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:36,840 It was really helpful. 963 01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,000 It wasn't prescribed any medication. 964 01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:40,640 There was nothing significantly wrong with me. 965 01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:45,280 I just needed someone to talk to and being able to talk freely and with a therapist who 966 01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:51,440 was trained and professional and was able to get me the resources I needed and just 967 01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:57,080 be there for me, really helped me get through that experience. 968 01:00:57,080 --> 01:01:03,480 And unfortunately, most people don't have access to it because the costs are astronomical. 969 01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:05,360 This is a problem. 970 01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:11,680 So again, I think that access to therapy, absolutely. 971 01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:16,040 But in the American health care system, who's going to pay for it? 972 01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:18,200 Is the school going to pay for it? 973 01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:20,360 Is the student going to? 974 01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:27,280 If you are young and you get diagnosed with one of these conditions or something, now 975 01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:30,880 you have debt, like now you have a bill to pay. 976 01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:33,480 Yeah, I just don't know. 977 01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:38,000 So yeah, basically how I was thinking about it, a lot of you, both of you have said a 978 01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:42,240 lot of good things is one, there's two routes I would go about it. 979 01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,120 Obviously the negative consequences and the positive ones. 980 01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:51,160 And the negative one is more like the thing that we already discussed regarding background 981 01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:55,440 checks would have certain people who have certain type of mental illnesses. 982 01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:58,180 You won't be able to get a gun depending on where you're from. 983 01:01:58,180 --> 01:02:01,040 So I think that is definitely an art type of argument you can have. 984 01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:09,120 Now I'm more interested in the aspect of the counseling, the positive consequences, because 985 01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:15,000 I do think I've heard the arguments in terms of mental health and background checks and 986 01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:19,520 guns and saying, oh, this is kind of the mental health that I think you are. 987 01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:22,200 So I'm not giving you a gun and the tyranny that can go with that. 988 01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:27,220 You know, I've heard the discussions and I'm not going to focus on that right now. 989 01:02:27,220 --> 01:02:32,640 So my thing is, when it comes down to it, I agree, counseling and having someone to 990 01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:40,080 talk to is hugely, hugely positive and especially would be somewhat positive for a person who's 991 01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:45,040 already in a dysfunctional home, who's already kind of lost, who probably doesn't have a 992 01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:50,640 parental figure that they can go to constantly. 993 01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:55,720 And even in the work place, because we have to recognize that there are adults, newly 994 01:02:55,720 --> 01:03:01,960 18 year olds, even like older 30, 40 year olds, who are also very lost in life. 995 01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:06,960 So these individuals would benefit greatly from a conversation, will benefit greatly 996 01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:13,080 from someone listening to them, and that will be a huge, huge bonus for a lot of people. 997 01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:19,960 So in that way, the mental health check would reroute you to someone to have a deep conversation 998 01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:20,960 with. 999 01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:21,960 Right. 1000 01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:26,000 And my other thing is, I do think something that is inherently valuable is purpose. 1001 01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:27,000 Right. 1002 01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:31,020 My thing is, especially for like people in America, one of the biggest reasons why mental 1003 01:03:31,020 --> 01:03:35,640 health is so bad is I do think people have a loss of values. 1004 01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:38,000 They have a loss of meaning. 1005 01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:40,600 People are trying to find type of meaning in their life. 1006 01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:44,480 They're trying to find some type of significance of their life constantly. 1007 01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:50,700 And when you have so much time to yourself, and we've talked about it before in the podcast, 1008 01:03:50,700 --> 01:03:56,340 my thing is with people who are especially young, who have so much time to just think 1009 01:03:56,340 --> 01:03:58,760 about themselves, they have no friends. 1010 01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:02,800 Like I said, families dysfunctional, no father figure. 1011 01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:05,600 They just are like an empty void. 1012 01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:10,360 And especially when things start going wrong, the negative thoughts start pouring in. 1013 01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:11,640 They have no purpose. 1014 01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,280 They're not doing anything. 1015 01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:19,680 So one thing that these type of checks can also route this individual to do is one, but 1016 01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:24,040 probably if you're talking about educational work reroute them in a more efficient program 1017 01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:30,600 to allow a lot more space and allow a lot more individual kind of cooperation, whether 1018 01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:36,080 it's with a teacher so they can kind of focus on set person or in the workplace to get them 1019 01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:37,360 less stressed out. 1020 01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:41,680 But my biggest thing is kind of rerouting them to activities, rerouting them to groups 1021 01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:45,560 to kind of figure out activities that they can do. 1022 01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:49,240 This will be huge, not just staying at home and playing video games, not just staying 1023 01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:57,640 home on your phone or social media or watching YouTube all day, but all actual human interactions, 1024 01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:01,240 actual conversations with different people. 1025 01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:07,320 These type of things could be hugely beneficial in establishing a sense of purpose immediately 1026 01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:12,240 for a person who is kind of lost in their own thoughts. 1027 01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:18,280 So these are kind of two things that I think will be innately valuable, especially for 1028 01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:25,520 the young in school, especially for the people who have dysfunctional homes, no father figure 1029 01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:29,160 who are kind of doused in their negative thoughts. 1030 01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:34,280 And even in the workplace, if we really want to go there, where these individuals who are 1031 01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:37,860 basically alone, it's even worse for like adults who are alone because they actually 1032 01:05:37,860 --> 01:05:38,860 have nowhere to go. 1033 01:05:38,860 --> 01:05:41,440 If they have no family, they have nowhere to go. 1034 01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:46,520 So that's kind of how I would kind of route them into more positive ways to kind of check 1035 01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:48,200 of their mental health. 1036 01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:53,840 In terms of the negatives that that one's a lot more of a nuanced conversation with 1037 01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:58,520 if immediately we deem them a threat, what should we kind of keep them from? 1038 01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:04,000 I do think that a conversation to have, but I think that is a good step as for kind of 1039 01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:05,000 the paying. 1040 01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:08,440 I mean, sorry, ladies and gentlemen, taxes just got to go up. 1041 01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:09,440 It just got to go up. 1042 01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:10,440 That's that's all. 1043 01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:14,000 Hey, you want better mental health taxes got to go up. 1044 01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:15,000 It is what it is. 1045 01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:21,800 So that's that's an important thing for me because I mostly see these at public institutions 1046 01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:28,560 like public education and then private institutions or workplaces. 1047 01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:33,240 If we incentivize a certain type of stigma, then they will implement it as well. 1048 01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:38,720 If it becomes popularized enough, if if we kind of deem it a necessity for society as 1049 01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:43,040 a whole, then these institutions will adopt the same type of principles. 1050 01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:49,780 So that is kind of how I would go about the mental health checks and what follows. 1051 01:06:49,780 --> 01:06:52,880 Of course, there's way more details, but that's kind of the broad brush. 1052 01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:55,000 So what do you all think? 1053 01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:56,000 Would you add anything? 1054 01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:57,000 Would you change anything? 1055 01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,000 How would you guys do about it? 1056 01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:05,120 It's again, it's a hard thing to kind of kind of tackle. 1057 01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:10,960 I will say this on the state of mental health in America and how we treat mental health 1058 01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:12,040 in America now. 1059 01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:13,040 Right. 1060 01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:17,640 I think we one of the problems that we don't talk about enough is what I like to call the 1061 01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:23,320 OOF occasion of mental health, where you have the people who are least affected by a problem 1062 01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:26,440 be represented as that problem basis of autism. 1063 01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:33,440 For example, most most autisms you autists you interact with are highly high functioning. 1064 01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:37,080 But that's not who needs help the most. 1065 01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:42,000 The people who you don't interact with because they're literally incapable of interacting 1066 01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:43,640 in a normal way. 1067 01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:44,640 Right. 1068 01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:45,640 They exist. 1069 01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:49,920 They have a lot of problems, but there was their problems are being swept under the rug 1070 01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:56,720 because the face of their problems are people that don't share their level of need. 1071 01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:58,340 And we see this with ADHD. 1072 01:07:58,340 --> 01:08:02,600 We see this with other forms of mental illness. 1073 01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:08,120 We are the having these conditions is seen as cutesy wutsy. 1074 01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:09,120 Oh, look at me. 1075 01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:11,120 I have I'm a little bipolar. 1076 01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:12,120 Ha ha ha. 1077 01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:13,880 I'm a little I'm a little autistic. 1078 01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:14,880 Ha ha ha. 1079 01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:16,880 I'm a little bit of a 1080 01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:20,080 It's something to be worn as like kind of a badge of honor in a lot of cases. 1081 01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:22,840 It gives you this weird social currency. 1082 01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:29,680 But it's causing us to look at the least important aspects of these problems. 1083 01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:32,760 I don't I don't care much. 1084 01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:38,200 Maybe this sounds cool, but I don't care much about the the highly super high functioning 1085 01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:41,120 person with ADHD who has maybe a little trouble in school. 1086 01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:42,680 Yeah, that's sad for them. 1087 01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:46,680 What I care about is the people who literally cannot function in our current system. 1088 01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:49,280 They are being vanished. 1089 01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:54,280 They're being disappeared by the system and by any kind of advocacy. 1090 01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:56,160 They are it. 1091 01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:57,200 It bothers me. 1092 01:08:57,200 --> 01:09:03,720 And I wonder and I worry that any system which we implement is going to fall along the lines 1093 01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:09,040 of we're going to help the people that we see that we know of but who need it the least. 1094 01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:10,040 And that's my concern. 1095 01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:11,040 That makes sense. 1096 01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:14,760 I definitely understand that problem. 1097 01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:20,080 One thing that we would have to consider to kind of regarding these mental health checks, 1098 01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:23,880 in my opinion, is getting these people to the check. 1099 01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:31,160 So that's a big thing that you kind of mentioned, especially trying to identify who needs it. 1100 01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:32,160 Right. 1101 01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:37,040 So in these situations, I mean, I think the only thing you can really say is it has to 1102 01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:41,520 be kind of periodical, periodical, and it has to be for everybody. 1103 01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:47,200 So I do think that is a very good thing to kind of bring up because sometimes, like you 1104 01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:52,640 said, we do kind of overshadow the people who are truly struggling. 1105 01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:57,040 And then the people who are not as bad, but really, really loud. 1106 01:09:57,040 --> 01:10:01,740 And there's a lot of groups that we can kind of identify that kind of equate to that kind 1107 01:10:01,740 --> 01:10:05,680 of make the situation worse or specifically. 1108 01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:08,440 I'm not going to say any specific group, but we know who they are. 1109 01:10:08,440 --> 01:10:12,320 So yeah, they kind of just make things worse. 1110 01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:15,200 So mental health is a big part. 1111 01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:20,340 And if we want to implement a system, I think mental health checks is a big starter. 1112 01:10:20,340 --> 01:10:26,440 But the biggest solution at the end of the day will be establishing better values, fixing 1113 01:10:26,440 --> 01:10:33,520 these impoverished areas in the sense that you're having so many kids grow up without 1114 01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:36,880 a father or a stable household or a stable home. 1115 01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:42,080 So fixing these will be much more cultural than any type of policy will fix at the end 1116 01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:43,200 of the day. 1117 01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:48,080 But speaking of policies, how do we feel about A.R.s? 1118 01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:49,080 How do we feel about it? 1119 01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:54,160 Do we think Americans should have A.R.s? 1120 01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:55,160 Yes. 1121 01:10:55,160 --> 01:11:07,080 But I think that we need some sort of gun license or some sort of like restriction on 1122 01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:08,960 who can purchase them or not. 1123 01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:18,880 I'm OK with people having assault rifles, even like very lethal implements and tools, 1124 01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:19,880 guns. 1125 01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:20,880 Guns are fun. 1126 01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:21,880 I like guns. 1127 01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:26,520 But just like we have a driver's license to drive a car, we should have a license to own 1128 01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:29,960 and operate a firearm. 1129 01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:32,480 So why do you? 1130 01:11:32,480 --> 01:11:35,240 I like I also used to be in the military. 1131 01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:37,440 I also do like guns as well. 1132 01:11:37,440 --> 01:11:43,480 But at the end of the day, I'm always curious about either one of you guys can answer this. 1133 01:11:43,480 --> 01:11:47,880 Why do we need people walking around the street with an A.R. like why? 1134 01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:49,800 We don't need it is the issue. 1135 01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:50,800 Right. 1136 01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:55,480 So like we also don't need people walking around smoking or walking around drinking 1137 01:11:55,480 --> 01:11:57,040 or or all these other things. 1138 01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:58,040 We allow it. 1139 01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:04,400 And I think we should if they are able to demonstrate that they are not going to be 1140 01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:08,240 a danger to the public by using an operating means. 1141 01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:14,440 So I think that if you are able to demonstrate you're not a danger to the public, then yeah, 1142 01:12:14,440 --> 01:12:15,800 that's fine to allow them. 1143 01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:19,160 But again, I think it's something you should have to demonstrate. 1144 01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:26,000 You should have to be like, I am capable and responsible enough to own and operate a firearm 1145 01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:27,760 and therefore, right. 1146 01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:30,480 I'm able to I don't know, pass the test. 1147 01:12:30,480 --> 01:12:32,520 I don't know exactly what it would look like. 1148 01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:39,800 But more hoops than we have now, which is basically in a lot of states, I want a gun. 1149 01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:40,800 Cool. 1150 01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:41,800 Here you go. 1151 01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:42,800 Right. 1152 01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:49,640 So so I would I don't want to ask because this is the Internet. 1153 01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:54,880 But we do have actually they don't just like give you the guns. 1154 01:12:54,880 --> 01:13:00,640 Like if you go to a gun store to purchase a gun, not saying necessarily that I speak 1155 01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:05,360 from experience, but it may or may not. 1156 01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:09,400 Tragically, I think I lost a couple of mine in a boating accident. 1157 01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:14,160 But they do put you through a federal background check when you go purchase the gun. 1158 01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:17,520 So it's not like they just give them to you. 1159 01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:21,480 There are some states that do allow you to sell guns amongst yourselves. 1160 01:13:21,480 --> 01:13:24,480 My fine state does allow that. 1161 01:13:24,480 --> 01:13:26,480 Don't worry about what state that is. 1162 01:13:26,480 --> 01:13:29,320 But there's a couple of things on why. 1163 01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:34,560 But they're just to clarify, is there background checks for private sellers? 1164 01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:35,560 There's not. 1165 01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:37,820 Some states do require background checks for sellers. 1166 01:13:37,820 --> 01:13:40,080 But if you think that's only main. 1167 01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:41,080 Yeah. 1168 01:13:41,080 --> 01:13:42,080 There might be. 1169 01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:43,080 There's very few. 1170 01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:44,600 Permenle is scary for perma scary. 1171 01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:45,600 But go ahead. 1172 01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:46,600 Yeah. 1173 01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:48,080 So there's very few that require private sellers. 1174 01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:54,960 But if you want to be a licensed seller, you do have to go through and get a bunch of certifications. 1175 01:13:54,960 --> 01:14:00,280 Secondly, just because you have a license doesn't mean we have a driver license. 1176 01:14:00,280 --> 01:14:01,280 Right. 1177 01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:04,960 But at the court that I work at, which is a relatively smaller court compared to other 1178 01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:10,280 ones because I live right in the suburbs of a city, every day there's at least 10 people 1179 01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:13,720 that come through that were driving without a license. 1180 01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:16,720 They had a suspended license and they come and they drive. 1181 01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:19,880 Just because you have a license, something is not a guarantee that people will abide 1182 01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:20,880 by that. 1183 01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:26,300 You know, there's a person that came in today that had a case that thick of driving under 1184 01:14:26,300 --> 01:14:27,440 suspensions. 1185 01:14:27,440 --> 01:14:30,000 All they do is drive without their driver's license. 1186 01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:33,880 Just because you have a license doesn't mean that people will abide by it. 1187 01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:35,240 I understand the principle. 1188 01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:41,640 Don't get me wrong, because most people, they will abide by the law just because the law 1189 01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:42,640 is there. 1190 01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:46,080 Still, the people that are going to cause the problems, though, aren't going to abide 1191 01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:47,080 by that law anyways. 1192 01:14:47,080 --> 01:14:48,080 Like the states. 1193 01:14:48,080 --> 01:14:51,840 No, I just fundamentally disagree with that. 1194 01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:55,280 We can look at the gun violence problem as not just a mass shooting problem, but also 1195 01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:56,280 with suicides. 1196 01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:57,280 Yes. 1197 01:14:57,280 --> 01:14:59,640 That is opposed to gun deaths or suicides. 1198 01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:01,800 Yes, with guns. 1199 01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:10,240 And without access to an instant, which is the problem with it, it goes from thought 1200 01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:14,320 to action much more quickly than say a rope would or other. 1201 01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:19,640 I don't want to get into morbid details, but there's a reason why guns are far more lethal 1202 01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:23,680 and it's not just because of their power, but it's because of their instantaneously. 1203 01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:24,680 Absolutely. 1204 01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:29,760 So when we talk about making gun license, most people would abide by that. 1205 01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:34,720 I think that people who aren't criminals, right, who aren't necessarily violent, but 1206 01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:43,640 who are otherwise having an issue, their lives are absolutely going to be saved by required 1207 01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:44,640 box. 1208 01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:45,640 Sure. 1209 01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:49,680 And I don't know the statistics particularly on the suicide gun death rate. 1210 01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:54,080 I would imagine, though, and I hope I don't know if you can tell me, I think a lot of 1211 01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:58,080 people is it's actually kids getting their parents guns. 1212 01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:00,080 So that license, I'm not sure. 1213 01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:01,080 Suicides? 1214 01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:02,080 I don't think so. 1215 01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:03,800 I don't know, though, out of the top of my head. 1216 01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:04,800 I don't even know. 1217 01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:07,120 Accidental shootings, that's a problem, right? 1218 01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:09,240 But that's again, it's a different issue. 1219 01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:10,520 Yeah, absolutely. 1220 01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:16,280 So I just know a couple of like personal stories, myself of kids who got their parents guns, 1221 01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:17,280 which is horrible. 1222 01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:22,200 And those parents should be punished for that because you should carry and protect your 1223 01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:23,540 weapon in your home. 1224 01:16:23,540 --> 01:16:25,960 You should have it properly stored. 1225 01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:27,300 Absolutely. 1226 01:16:27,300 --> 01:16:32,860 My other thing, though, is there is a difference between the cars and guns thing because we 1227 01:16:32,860 --> 01:16:38,680 have the Second Amendment, right, which grants inherently a right to the firearm. 1228 01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:42,680 We don't have a right to a car that's not enshrined in the Constitution or the Bill 1229 01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:43,880 of Rights. 1230 01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:47,720 We have in the Bill of Rights number two was the right to bear arms. 1231 01:16:47,720 --> 01:16:50,180 Now I kind of take this from this approach, right? 1232 01:16:50,180 --> 01:16:53,160 It says the right to bear or shall not be infringed. 1233 01:16:53,160 --> 01:16:55,760 And then it mentions the militia. 1234 01:16:55,760 --> 01:17:01,440 And so states and principalities in different cities and stuff like that were supposed to 1235 01:17:01,440 --> 01:17:03,440 have militias. 1236 01:17:03,440 --> 01:17:04,960 And the way that I take that, right. 1237 01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:11,280 So some people will say that is, you know, the Air National Guard or the National Guard. 1238 01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:13,800 I don't really look at them as militias. 1239 01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:21,100 The way I think of it is groups of people who are patriotic, they love our country, 1240 01:17:21,100 --> 01:17:27,520 and they take the time to diligently practice with that thing. 1241 01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:33,880 In my state, we just got rid of the requirement to conceal carry with the CCW. 1242 01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:36,400 You have the right to constitutional carry. 1243 01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:39,440 And I'm really iffy on this because on one hand... 1244 01:17:39,440 --> 01:17:41,440 CCW, closed combat weapon? 1245 01:17:41,440 --> 01:17:42,440 What are you talking about? 1246 01:17:42,440 --> 01:17:44,000 Concealed carry weapons permit. 1247 01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:45,000 Ah, gotcha. 1248 01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:47,120 OK, so different states call different things. 1249 01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:49,040 That's what it's called in my state. 1250 01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:50,040 So CCW. 1251 01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:57,480 So in my state, you needed a CCW to conceal carry a weapon. 1252 01:17:57,480 --> 01:18:05,080 They just got rid of that, as did I believe at least half of the states now or around 1253 01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:06,080 about half. 1254 01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:07,080 Yeah, exactly half. 1255 01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:08,080 Is it exactly half right now? 1256 01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:09,080 I think above half actually. 1257 01:18:09,080 --> 01:18:10,080 I think it's 26. 1258 01:18:10,080 --> 01:18:16,880 I think I was going to say I think it might be 26. 1259 01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:20,320 But you don't need that anymore. 1260 01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:25,200 And that's kind of scary to me because half of those people who carry the guns are going 1261 01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:27,400 to be people that already have the CCW. 1262 01:18:27,400 --> 01:18:30,920 But there's going to be another whole half of people that are going to now carry guns 1263 01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:32,200 because it's easier. 1264 01:18:32,200 --> 01:18:36,160 And those are the people that worry me because they're not going to be trained. 1265 01:18:36,160 --> 01:18:41,880 I never hesitate as to their right because there is a right in this country to own and 1266 01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:44,600 protect yourself. 1267 01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:49,880 But you also like so I brought this up with the last podcast that unfortunately the podcast 1268 01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:54,680 in which we fixed all of the world's problems and it unfortunately got lost. 1269 01:18:54,680 --> 01:18:59,680 I said that freedom is the freedom to do what you ought to do, not the freedom to do whatever 1270 01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:01,520 you necessarily want to do. 1271 01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:06,920 And so you have the freedom to carry this gun, which means you ought to be good if you're 1272 01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:07,920 going to use it. 1273 01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:13,660 If you're going to do anything, my Bible says if you do anything, anything you find your 1274 01:19:13,660 --> 01:19:15,600 hand to do, do it therely onto all of your mind. 1275 01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:17,400 Just do it to the best of your abilities. 1276 01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:22,080 So if I'm going to take on the responsibility of carrying a gun everywhere I go, I want 1277 01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:27,000 to be absolutely sure that if I need to use it, I will use it 100 percent the way it was 1278 01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:31,640 intended to do with perfect proficiency, which means I have an obligation to be very proficient 1279 01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:32,980 with that. 1280 01:19:32,980 --> 01:19:36,680 And the problem is, is we have a bunch of peahaws that like to just carry around guns 1281 01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:38,240 and do whatever they want to do. 1282 01:19:38,240 --> 01:19:39,240 And you know what? 1283 01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:40,240 They have the right to do it. 1284 01:19:40,240 --> 01:19:45,040 I would rather have that than be under a state in which I don't have that right. 1285 01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:51,680 Because still, even with that, most people won't go and commit murders with that gun. 1286 01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:55,280 They'll just have the gun in their house and probably never touch it. 1287 01:19:55,280 --> 01:20:00,480 You know, we saw five million around about new gun owners in the time of 2020 in the 1288 01:20:00,480 --> 01:20:02,020 COVID pandemic. 1289 01:20:02,020 --> 01:20:05,120 Most of those guns are probably still in their box. 1290 01:20:05,120 --> 01:20:06,120 They never got taken out. 1291 01:20:06,120 --> 01:20:07,240 They just have them. 1292 01:20:07,240 --> 01:20:09,360 That's what most guns are like. 1293 01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:14,520 Most guns sit in someone's closet in someone's drawer and never get touched. 1294 01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:18,680 But the ones that do get used, I think people have a responsibility if they're going to 1295 01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:21,400 carry it and take that next step. 1296 01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:23,680 They have an obligation to be proficient with it. 1297 01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:24,920 And I think they should. 1298 01:20:24,920 --> 01:20:25,920 I agree with you. 1299 01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:31,840 I think they should demonstrate that that proficiency and some sort of test in order 1300 01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:32,840 to carry around. 1301 01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:39,280 I am against this idea that we you could just willy nilly without any kind of license. 1302 01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:40,280 Just carried around. 1303 01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:41,640 I think you should have the right. 1304 01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:47,560 Everyone should have the right right to apply for and have a chance to get a gun. 1305 01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:51,320 But that doesn't mean right that there shouldn't be any restrictions whatsoever. 1306 01:20:51,320 --> 01:20:56,240 I think you and I could both agree perhaps right that someone who is on the terrorist 1307 01:20:56,240 --> 01:21:00,120 watch list should not be able to purchase a firearm. 1308 01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:01,120 Yeah. 1309 01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:02,120 Yeah. 1310 01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:04,240 I think as long as it's a legitimate terrorist watch. 1311 01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:05,240 Yeah. 1312 01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:06,240 Yeah. 1313 01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:07,240 That's what I'm saying. 1314 01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:12,960 I mean, Osama bin Laden type right like who's literally come in here right has has a history 1315 01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:18,280 of violence in their home country that has done a lot of terrible things as a member 1316 01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:20,320 of terrorist groups and organizations. 1317 01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:21,320 Yeah. 1318 01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:26,840 We should probably say hey this person even though they become an American citizen should 1319 01:21:26,840 --> 01:21:30,720 not have the ability to carry a weapon in the streets. 1320 01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:31,720 You know I agree. 1321 01:21:31,720 --> 01:21:32,720 Yeah. 1322 01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:36,640 My thing is we kind of already do have those kind of laws right. 1323 01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:42,600 And so the cities that have some of the strictest gun policies also have still most of the violent 1324 01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:44,240 gun crimes. 1325 01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:51,720 My concern is this when we're adding more gun laws we're only going to be adding them 1326 01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:56,600 to the people who are already abiding by those laws. 1327 01:21:56,600 --> 01:22:00,640 We're not adding them as you said with the CCW permit that's being taken away. 1328 01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:02,520 We're yes moving them. 1329 01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:03,520 And that's a problem. 1330 01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:04,520 Yeah. 1331 01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:09,400 I'm saying in general the conversation when people are saying that we need to add more 1332 01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:13,120 gun laws we need stricter gun policies. 1333 01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:17,120 We're only going to be preventing the people who are going to be law abiding anyways. 1334 01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:20,040 I have members I have a very massive family. 1335 01:22:20,040 --> 01:22:25,880 So my family encompasses the whole of the American experience because we have like 500 1336 01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:27,480 plus people in my family. 1337 01:22:27,480 --> 01:22:31,600 My grandma and her siblings were very productive people. 1338 01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:36,400 She got in trouble because he illegally bought a gun and he wasn't he was one of these individuals 1339 01:22:36,400 --> 01:22:39,000 that was ineligible to purchase firearm. 1340 01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:43,920 And then he got arrested with the firearm because he went and bought it in a back alley 1341 01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:47,320 in a big city near me. 1342 01:22:47,320 --> 01:22:48,760 So I agree. 1343 01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:50,640 I'm actually pro CCW. 1344 01:22:50,640 --> 01:22:55,640 I will be getting my CCW when it comes out even though I don't need it because I want 1345 01:22:55,640 --> 01:22:56,920 because firstly it makes law. 1346 01:22:56,920 --> 01:22:58,920 So I'm in the criminal justice profession. 1347 01:22:58,920 --> 01:22:59,920 I'm in school for criminal justice. 1348 01:22:59,920 --> 01:23:01,920 I work a lot with police officers. 1349 01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:05,840 It makes police officers much happier when you say officer I have a firearm and here's 1350 01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:06,840 my CCW. 1351 01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:09,600 They immediately know that this person is responsible. 1352 01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:11,480 So I'm actually pro CCW. 1353 01:23:11,480 --> 01:23:15,960 People should go out and get it because in the CCW in my state when you get it you have 1354 01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:23,040 to go take a certain hour from a usually it's the sheriff's office. 1355 01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:24,040 They'll teach you a whole course. 1356 01:23:24,040 --> 01:23:28,480 It's usually a day or two and you get on the range and you demonstrate proficiency. 1357 01:23:28,480 --> 01:23:31,320 I'm totally pro that. 1358 01:23:31,320 --> 01:23:34,960 But I don't think that should be a requirement to get a gun. 1359 01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:40,000 I think if you want to carry the gun around I wouldn't be opposed to that at all. 1360 01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:44,800 I don't see why you would be like slinging a rifle on your back and walking around downtown 1361 01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:46,040 wherever. 1362 01:23:46,040 --> 01:23:50,280 But with people who want to carry around handguns. 1363 01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:55,600 Because America I mean like look again it's it's I understand what you're saying and I 1364 01:23:55,600 --> 01:23:59,040 do I am not anti Second Amendment. 1365 01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:00,720 I think the Second Amendment is important. 1366 01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:05,360 I think freedom to be able to purchase a firearm is important. 1367 01:24:05,360 --> 01:24:12,400 But I don't think that that shouldn't come with some restriction or this state in the 1368 01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:16,280 government's ability to at least limit it in some way. 1369 01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:21,000 Because again we talk about mental health as a cause for these things. 1370 01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:25,840 Just the firearms and you're right where the violence would just shift but it would shift 1371 01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:29,160 to a less lethal type of violence. 1372 01:24:29,160 --> 01:24:30,760 Still bad right. 1373 01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:34,840 None of these laws none of these solutions that we put in place none of these restrictions 1374 01:24:34,840 --> 01:24:36,800 is going to entirely eliminate the problem. 1375 01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:40,360 I cop to that I would like that bullets is not going to happen. 1376 01:24:40,360 --> 01:24:43,560 We're never not going to have violence with us. 1377 01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:49,600 But we can mitigate it and we could take some steps to at least try and solve this problem 1378 01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:54,480 because at the end of the day right we need to be able to try different things to see 1379 01:24:54,480 --> 01:24:59,320 if they will work and then we can look at it we can means test it right. 1380 01:24:59,320 --> 01:25:04,640 And then if it does work we can apply it to the other places. 1381 01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:09,200 So let me let me go let me hop in here. 1382 01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:12,000 So a lot of very interesting things. 1383 01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:17,320 And after I say this want to go into some specific laws including red flag laws including 1384 01:25:17,320 --> 01:25:25,240 extreme risk laws and including which what do back what should background checks prevent 1385 01:25:25,240 --> 01:25:30,720 or what should background checks show to prevent X Y and Z from getting said gun. 1386 01:25:30,720 --> 01:25:34,080 So we'll go into those three things and see how helpful they can be. 1387 01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:37,800 But my thing in terms of what you're saying Jonathan because I've definitely dived into 1388 01:25:37,800 --> 01:25:41,920 the Second Amendment and I'm not anti Second Amendment either. 1389 01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:46,840 But I do question people's interpretation of the Second Amendment a lot to be completely 1390 01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:48,000 honest. 1391 01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:55,200 I've saw that the Second Amendment had like two main theories and now the first theory 1392 01:25:55,200 --> 01:26:01,000 was mostly kind of centered around the idea of a state militia and having the ability 1393 01:26:01,000 --> 01:26:05,720 to at the end of the day fight against the federal government if need be. 1394 01:26:05,720 --> 01:26:10,320 And then the second theory was more individualistic and every person should individually have 1395 01:26:10,320 --> 01:26:13,000 the right to have a gun right. 1396 01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:15,080 Nowadays in America everybody loves a second theory. 1397 01:26:15,080 --> 01:26:18,880 That is the popular norm that is what people want to kind of say. 1398 01:26:18,880 --> 01:26:22,280 That's exactly what it means in terms of the Second Amendment. 1399 01:26:22,280 --> 01:26:25,360 And my thing is that's fine and all. 1400 01:26:25,360 --> 01:26:28,800 But at the end of the day the purpose behind the Second Amendment obviously was obvious 1401 01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:36,280 to deter potential tyrannical power from infringing their type of tyranny on the people. 1402 01:26:36,280 --> 01:26:44,120 So that's I understand that aspect of it and I understand the aspect of saying that it's 1403 01:26:44,120 --> 01:26:53,920 a right and it's because it's a right we should have this in place for in terms of gun laws. 1404 01:26:53,920 --> 01:26:54,920 Right. 1405 01:26:54,920 --> 01:26:58,080 But I never think that's a good enough excuse. 1406 01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:01,720 One because the interpretation is a little shaky. 1407 01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:10,600 And two the amendments can be or the Bill of Rights and things that it's in the Constitution. 1408 01:27:10,600 --> 01:27:14,600 There's an amendment in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights itself is saying that it 1409 01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:16,560 constantly can be updated. 1410 01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:21,880 It constantly can do it can update itself for the betterment of the people. 1411 01:27:21,880 --> 01:27:25,420 So I'll never agree with the aspect of taking away everybody's guns. 1412 01:27:25,420 --> 01:27:28,400 But I also will never agree with the aspect that oh yeah the Second Amendment says this 1413 01:27:28,400 --> 01:27:31,700 so I should have my gun and no government should say anything about it. 1414 01:27:31,700 --> 01:27:35,480 That's absolutely foolish because even the First Amendment which has the Freeman speech 1415 01:27:35,480 --> 01:27:41,120 has placements in there and we've talked about in the Shadow Realm episode that will never 1416 01:27:41,120 --> 01:27:42,120 appear. 1417 01:27:42,120 --> 01:27:45,120 We talked about the three things that free speech doesn't cover. 1418 01:27:45,120 --> 01:27:50,920 It doesn't cover the ability to incite illegal actions or tell people to do illegal action 1419 01:27:50,920 --> 01:28:01,860 as in cover emitting obscenity and it doesn't cover you know violence obviously. 1420 01:28:01,860 --> 01:28:09,440 So at the end of the day we can definitely find things that these amendments don't give 1421 01:28:09,440 --> 01:28:12,240 an absolute right to the people. 1422 01:28:12,240 --> 01:28:21,120 And my my my overall reason why I'm pointing this out is because like Wick said we should 1423 01:28:21,120 --> 01:28:26,160 always have deterrent for the problems that we're having. 1424 01:28:26,160 --> 01:28:31,840 There won't be a complete solution but the solution of everybody should have a gun and 1425 01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:35,880 go willy nilly doesn't seem like it's actually helping the case. 1426 01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:40,720 It actually seems like it's being it's a lot more problematic than helpful. 1427 01:28:40,720 --> 01:28:44,600 And even if you look at the cities because at the end of the day in terms of gun violence 1428 01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:49,440 it's mostly those inner cities like Chicago like you mentioned right. 1429 01:28:49,440 --> 01:28:52,760 And those situations sure but I don't think that's a gun situation. 1430 01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:56,480 That's a lot more I think that's a definitely culture situation. 1431 01:28:56,480 --> 01:29:02,240 Sure everywhere else I think you could argue that's a more individualistic and it's a more 1432 01:29:02,240 --> 01:29:06,160 of a gun situation and gun laws would help in those circumstances more so. 1433 01:29:06,160 --> 01:29:13,980 So I so a couple things if I may if I may go for people can I encourage you to fact 1434 01:29:13,980 --> 01:29:19,400 check me on this but we drop down very substantially when it does come to if we remove the gun 1435 01:29:19,400 --> 01:29:21,220 violence from those big cities. 1436 01:29:21,220 --> 01:29:24,720 We drop down yeah we drop down a lot. 1437 01:29:24,720 --> 01:29:30,760 On the interpretation of the Second Amendment I like to defer to the other writings of the 1438 01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:35,880 founding fathers to see what they meant when they when they wrote these things. 1439 01:29:35,880 --> 01:29:42,640 And I believe it's John Adams who was after he wrote that amendment and there was a private 1440 01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:50,680 citizen who sent him a letter asking clarification as to like what he was allowed to own when 1441 01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:52,920 it came to weapons. 1442 01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:56,920 And this is obviously in 1700 so they didn't have ARs they didn't have these things. 1443 01:29:56,920 --> 01:30:02,560 But what was a very cutting edge piece of technology were long cannons. 1444 01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:10,240 And he this was a private citizen who wrote John Adams asking am I allowed to own cannons 1445 01:30:10,240 --> 01:30:15,340 to like put on my property to put on specifically he was a merchant to put on his merchant ship. 1446 01:30:15,340 --> 01:30:19,920 And John Adams wrote essentially excuse my French but hell yes. 1447 01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:21,720 You're allowed to own a cannon. 1448 01:30:21,720 --> 01:30:25,840 And so that would be equivalent to a lot of the more modern technology that we have now 1449 01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:30,520 because that was the cutting edge cutting edge technology back then. 1450 01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:36,480 And so you can look up that letter but a private citizen wrote requesting the right to defend 1451 01:30:36,480 --> 01:30:41,240 his merchant ship because at this time there was the Barbary War going on where merchant 1452 01:30:41,240 --> 01:30:47,540 ships that flew American flags were being targeted by pirates from or pirates from Tripoli. 1453 01:30:47,540 --> 01:30:51,040 And so they wanted to be able to defend their property and the cutting edge technology of 1454 01:30:51,040 --> 01:30:56,960 the time was the cannon and that was covered by the First or the Second Amendment rather. 1455 01:30:56,960 --> 01:31:03,160 So I am probably you guys already knew that but I am pro the interpretation that people 1456 01:31:03,160 --> 01:31:07,460 are allowed to own things as long as they don't give up their rights to be citizens 1457 01:31:07,460 --> 01:31:12,840 right if you commit offenses especially felonies you're giving up you're saying I don't care 1458 01:31:12,840 --> 01:31:14,980 about this social contract. 1459 01:31:14,980 --> 01:31:19,660 And I think you should certainly be excluded if you're charged with these serious criminal 1460 01:31:19,660 --> 01:31:24,400 offenses because you have said that I don't want to be an American because I'm going to 1461 01:31:24,400 --> 01:31:26,100 violate American laws. 1462 01:31:26,100 --> 01:31:31,200 There are exceptions I'm not saying that but when it comes to law abiding citizens I think 1463 01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:37,120 they do have the right to own what they are able to and have the means to afford. 1464 01:31:37,120 --> 01:31:40,360 So just real quick someone can afford a tank. 1465 01:31:40,360 --> 01:31:44,080 You think that private citizens should be able to own and operate a tank. 1466 01:31:44,080 --> 01:31:45,080 Yes. 1467 01:31:45,080 --> 01:31:46,080 M1A1 Abrams basically. 1468 01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:47,080 Yeah. 1469 01:31:47,080 --> 01:31:48,080 What about a fighter jet? 1470 01:31:48,080 --> 01:31:53,480 What about a F-16 for whatever reason they got their hands on it could afford it and 1471 01:31:53,480 --> 01:31:54,920 bought it from the military. 1472 01:31:54,920 --> 01:31:57,160 They should be able to own and operate this. 1473 01:31:57,160 --> 01:32:03,400 As long as they have the capacity for it and have proven that they are like you know citizens 1474 01:32:03,400 --> 01:32:06,120 of the United States and they haven't committed any serious offenses. 1475 01:32:06,120 --> 01:32:07,120 Sure. 1476 01:32:07,120 --> 01:32:08,120 What about a cruise missile? 1477 01:32:08,120 --> 01:32:09,120 Yeah. 1478 01:32:09,120 --> 01:32:10,120 Okay. 1479 01:32:10,120 --> 01:32:12,840 I just I just I don't know about. 1480 01:32:12,840 --> 01:32:17,320 Can you say I'm going to take the most extreme most ridiculous position. 1481 01:32:17,320 --> 01:32:20,400 I love the consistency. 1482 01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:21,760 I love the consistency. 1483 01:32:21,760 --> 01:32:23,560 I love the consistency. 1484 01:32:23,560 --> 01:32:29,600 Inherently though I think for the most part using that situation and I'll be very interested 1485 01:32:29,600 --> 01:32:30,760 to see that quote of course. 1486 01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:34,520 I'm not saying you're lying but I'll be interested to see what John Adams has to say. 1487 01:32:34,520 --> 01:32:36,320 Sounds good. 1488 01:32:36,320 --> 01:32:39,180 But that is relative to the circumstance in the situation. 1489 01:32:39,180 --> 01:32:44,400 Like you said pirates are involved and the situation of the United States was very different 1490 01:32:44,400 --> 01:32:46,160 compared to current society. 1491 01:32:46,160 --> 01:32:52,040 And that's why I believe it was the 10th Amendment or 9th one was talking about hey we probably 1492 01:32:52,040 --> 01:32:56,440 should keep on updating the Constitution based on relativity of the times. 1493 01:32:56,440 --> 01:33:01,120 And relative to the times a person having a cannon on their front lawn is absolutely 1494 01:33:01,120 --> 01:33:02,440 ridiculous. 1495 01:33:02,440 --> 01:33:04,600 You won't see people doing that. 1496 01:33:04,600 --> 01:33:11,120 So I definitely understand in a perfect world I do think what you say makes sense. 1497 01:33:11,120 --> 01:33:13,040 But I think people are stupid. 1498 01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:15,080 So I don't want people to have these things. 1499 01:33:15,080 --> 01:33:19,960 So that is a valid argument. 1500 01:33:19,960 --> 01:33:27,640 And then you when you take into account how the United States is with how with the mental 1501 01:33:27,640 --> 01:33:31,720 illness problem I doubt John Adams even knows what mental illness means. 1502 01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:35,680 So when you take that into account with the current society because we have first world 1503 01:33:35,680 --> 01:33:36,680 problems. 1504 01:33:36,680 --> 01:33:39,800 The United States back then knows we have first world problems. 1505 01:33:39,800 --> 01:33:44,520 Our first world problems is people being very very very very very depressed because they 1506 01:33:44,520 --> 01:33:46,320 have no life. 1507 01:33:46,320 --> 01:33:47,740 That is our first world problem. 1508 01:33:47,740 --> 01:33:53,500 So with that said I do want to get into the topic at hand in terms of the policies. 1509 01:33:53,500 --> 01:33:57,120 And you already elicited a lot of things that you don't mind people having. 1510 01:33:57,120 --> 01:34:07,520 So do we think stuff like background checks stuff like extreme risk laws which if a person's 1511 01:34:07,520 --> 01:34:14,360 extreme risk their guns are taken away and red flag laws in terms of taking guns away. 1512 01:34:14,360 --> 01:34:21,360 Do we think these are good policies to deter bad actors from having a gun. 1513 01:34:21,360 --> 01:34:23,160 Devils in the details. 1514 01:34:23,160 --> 01:34:24,160 I keep saying this. 1515 01:34:24,160 --> 01:34:25,160 I know it's frustrating. 1516 01:34:25,160 --> 01:34:29,960 But the devil's in the details you can have a good red flag home and you can have a very 1517 01:34:29,960 --> 01:34:31,240 poor red flag law. 1518 01:34:31,240 --> 01:34:35,400 You can you listen example of both. 1519 01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:39,600 I am not familiar enough with state laws and specifics of red flag laws to give you very 1520 01:34:39,600 --> 01:34:40,600 specific examples. 1521 01:34:40,600 --> 01:34:42,040 I can give you a conceptual example. 1522 01:34:42,040 --> 01:34:43,040 Would that work. 1523 01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:44,040 Yeah. 1524 01:34:44,040 --> 01:34:52,200 So I would say a good red flag law is one that say you have been reported right and 1525 01:34:52,200 --> 01:34:57,880 have a what's it called a restraining order against you from your significant other because 1526 01:34:57,880 --> 01:35:02,640 they reported multiple counts of domestic violence things like that. 1527 01:35:02,640 --> 01:35:06,960 I think that the state has the ability right and has the responsibility to keep you away 1528 01:35:06,960 --> 01:35:11,760 from a firearm right and say hey at least until this is resolved you're not allowed 1529 01:35:11,760 --> 01:35:12,960 to own a firearm. 1530 01:35:12,960 --> 01:35:14,480 I think that's a good thing. 1531 01:35:14,480 --> 01:35:23,040 An example of a bad red flag state law is like oh well you see you've had a lot of noise 1532 01:35:23,040 --> 01:35:27,440 complaints from your neighbors and you know I don't think that's a very good thing. 1533 01:35:27,440 --> 01:35:32,080 So you know and also you've had this diagnosis of ADHD. 1534 01:35:32,080 --> 01:35:35,120 We really should we really don't maybe once you have any gun. 1535 01:35:35,120 --> 01:35:36,120 I think it's poor. 1536 01:35:36,120 --> 01:35:38,720 I think there's a poor implementation of red flag law. 1537 01:35:38,720 --> 01:35:40,560 I'm not saying that any state friendly do this. 1538 01:35:40,560 --> 01:35:45,840 I'm just saying that I can imagine a situation where you have silly kind of reasons to keep 1539 01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:48,440 away someone from a gun that really don't apply. 1540 01:35:48,440 --> 01:35:52,320 I think when it comes to red flag law it needs to be specifically things that are threats 1541 01:35:52,320 --> 01:35:59,000 to actual violence that we can demonstrate have led as stepping stones to violence in 1542 01:35:59,000 --> 01:36:04,880 the future such as right threats making threats like calling in a bomb threat or something 1543 01:36:04,880 --> 01:36:10,720 calling in a bomb threat to a school or making threats against coworkers or significant others 1544 01:36:10,720 --> 01:36:15,360 if that can be proven right and documented then I think that yes red flag law should 1545 01:36:15,360 --> 01:36:16,360 apply. 1546 01:36:16,360 --> 01:36:20,520 What do you think Jonathan? 1547 01:36:20,520 --> 01:36:24,800 So in his first conception I would agree with that right. 1548 01:36:24,800 --> 01:36:29,400 If you have a neighbor that you found out had a firearm and you know that he's got a 1549 01:36:29,400 --> 01:36:36,420 TPO or restraining order or you know a no contact order or shouldn't legally because 1550 01:36:36,420 --> 01:36:42,120 he violated law right he said he made the decision that I'm going to break this law. 1551 01:36:42,120 --> 01:36:43,960 I'm going to commit domestic violence. 1552 01:36:43,960 --> 01:36:49,840 I'm going to do aggravated burglary or something like that and prove that he does not care 1553 01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:54,200 to be a citizen of the United States and abide by our laws then yeah let's take away his 1554 01:36:54,200 --> 01:36:58,040 firearms because he's proved to be a threat to himself or to others. 1555 01:36:58,040 --> 01:37:03,360 But I also agree with what he said you know the second conception the conception or the 1556 01:37:03,360 --> 01:37:09,560 conception of red flag laws that we see reflected in some states recommendations for what it 1557 01:37:09,560 --> 01:37:11,840 is is a simple reporting thing right. 1558 01:37:11,840 --> 01:37:17,440 So you go down to the judge and you report hey this is a red flag and you know in all 1559 01:37:17,440 --> 01:37:23,420 honesty if I had conversations with people say of my college campus I would probably 1560 01:37:23,420 --> 01:37:25,040 be considered a threat. 1561 01:37:25,040 --> 01:37:29,600 You know they would be concerned about me because you know I am an ideological Nazi 1562 01:37:29,600 --> 01:37:35,680 and I am a threat an imminent threat to the to the democ our sacred democracy and my guns 1563 01:37:35,680 --> 01:37:38,400 would probably be taken away. 1564 01:37:38,400 --> 01:37:39,400 I don't think that's true. 1565 01:37:39,400 --> 01:37:43,700 I think obvious obviously I don't think that's true. 1566 01:37:43,700 --> 01:37:51,240 That's my worry with red flag laws right that depending on and this is one of this goes 1567 01:37:51,240 --> 01:37:58,480 back to I think you know the partisanship whatever party is in power when that passed 1568 01:37:58,480 --> 01:38:02,600 is going to reflect their ideology in the law that gets passed. 1569 01:38:02,600 --> 01:38:06,760 So if it's Democrats they're obviously going to try to ward its fill that targets Republicans 1570 01:38:06,760 --> 01:38:09,520 and vice versa. 1571 01:38:09,520 --> 01:38:13,040 So I think it has to be it's like you said the devil's in the details. 1572 01:38:13,040 --> 01:38:16,960 I think you know we do have an obligation the state has an obligation to protect its 1573 01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:23,680 citizens and if someone who is not going to care about its citizens and violate the laws 1574 01:38:23,680 --> 01:38:27,200 of that state constantly I don't think they should have guns. 1575 01:38:27,200 --> 01:38:30,240 This is where I can agree with anybody who says those sorts of things. 1576 01:38:30,240 --> 01:38:37,200 I will I will I will only contest one part of what you said there right. 1577 01:38:37,200 --> 01:38:43,840 I think that in certain cases reporting without a conviction should be enough to at least 1578 01:38:43,840 --> 01:38:47,160 temporarily ban your access to guns. 1579 01:38:47,160 --> 01:38:50,400 Let me give you an example what I mean by that. 1580 01:38:50,400 --> 01:38:55,320 Someone who hasn't yet had the restraining order but a woman comes in bruises on her 1581 01:38:55,320 --> 01:38:57,240 face a black eye right. 1582 01:38:57,240 --> 01:39:01,440 Yeah yeah my husband is threatening to kill me. 1583 01:39:01,440 --> 01:39:07,840 There's no conviction nor should there be a conviction without a trial but sans conviction 1584 01:39:07,840 --> 01:39:12,640 the state should be like hey until this resolves you should not be able to own a gun. 1585 01:39:12,640 --> 01:39:15,640 I understand that there is risk of this being abused. 1586 01:39:15,640 --> 01:39:17,280 I get that right. 1587 01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:21,880 But we have to weigh the potential abuse of the system with the good that can come from 1588 01:39:21,880 --> 01:39:24,960 the system and the arms from not having this system in place. 1589 01:39:24,960 --> 01:39:31,280 And I think right now domestic violence and domestic inter I forget the buzzword for it 1590 01:39:31,280 --> 01:39:35,600 interpart partner violence I guess is what they call it now. 1591 01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:37,280 I'm not IPV I think it is. 1592 01:39:37,280 --> 01:39:38,280 Domestic violence. 1593 01:39:38,280 --> 01:39:40,320 Well is it. 1594 01:39:40,320 --> 01:39:41,920 I've heard different things. 1595 01:39:41,920 --> 01:39:44,640 Regardless regardless of what you call it right. 1596 01:39:44,640 --> 01:39:52,360 We are seeing women and children be hurt and killed due to guns and long. 1597 01:39:52,360 --> 01:39:58,200 And yeah so I think that even without a conviction with the sans conviction if in certain cases 1598 01:39:58,200 --> 01:40:02,000 I would be OK with the government stepping in and say OK. 1599 01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:03,000 Yeah. 1600 01:40:03,000 --> 01:40:06,240 And in that case I would still agree with you because right. 1601 01:40:06,240 --> 01:40:09,240 It's still threat of violence against someone right. 1602 01:40:09,240 --> 01:40:12,280 It's still something we see the bruises right. 1603 01:40:12,280 --> 01:40:13,960 That would stand in a preliminary trial. 1604 01:40:13,960 --> 01:40:15,840 I would agree with you there. 1605 01:40:15,840 --> 01:40:22,200 When I get worried about the red flag laws particularly is when it's just like you said 1606 01:40:22,200 --> 01:40:26,160 the noise complained by the neighbors and they find something they heard you talking 1607 01:40:26,160 --> 01:40:30,600 in your backyard about something like oh yeah I love Donald Trump or whatever it might be 1608 01:40:30,600 --> 01:40:32,960 and they give him a red flag for that. 1609 01:40:32,960 --> 01:40:34,520 I'm going to be with you. 1610 01:40:34,520 --> 01:40:36,320 I mean I'm going to be real with you. 1611 01:40:36,320 --> 01:40:43,120 If if I could report some people's tweets that I see in Twitter feeds and stuff and 1612 01:40:43,120 --> 01:40:47,200 I'm like you know someone I don't know what should happen to this person but someone needs 1613 01:40:47,200 --> 01:40:52,320 to at least check to check to see if this person is crazy right. 1614 01:40:52,320 --> 01:40:55,200 We solve that problem in the last episode as well. 1615 01:40:55,200 --> 01:40:56,200 All right. 1616 01:40:56,200 --> 01:41:00,600 We're just going to hype this episode up as it's like the best podcast that was ever recorded. 1617 01:41:00,600 --> 01:41:05,760 No no I say that kind of facetiously because obviously I'm personally at least I'm a big 1618 01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:06,760 proponent of free speech. 1619 01:41:06,760 --> 01:41:09,760 I don't think the government should be arresting people for tweets and stuff like that but 1620 01:41:09,760 --> 01:41:12,440 I do say that there are causes right. 1621 01:41:12,440 --> 01:41:17,920 I say that to say this that there are red flags that you can see in someone right that 1622 01:41:17,920 --> 01:41:20,040 you actually should tell someone about. 1623 01:41:20,040 --> 01:41:23,640 So regardless of whether you believe in red flag laws or not right. 1624 01:41:23,640 --> 01:41:28,720 If you see someone acting out of pocket and you think that they are a threat to others 1625 01:41:28,720 --> 01:41:32,040 tell someone don't keep it quiet. 1626 01:41:32,040 --> 01:41:34,200 Don't don't worry. 1627 01:41:34,200 --> 01:41:36,200 Well maybe I'm just overreacting. 1628 01:41:36,200 --> 01:41:39,440 Maybe I'm just being a busybody or a Karen or whatever. 1629 01:41:39,440 --> 01:41:45,200 If you think that someone is a legitimate threat to other people tell someone about 1630 01:41:45,200 --> 01:41:46,200 it. 1631 01:41:46,200 --> 01:41:47,200 Yeah. 1632 01:41:47,200 --> 01:41:50,600 So before you say something Jonathan I think a key component here because it seems like 1633 01:41:50,600 --> 01:41:56,720 you both agree at the end of the day with the hour you know showing a sense of threat 1634 01:41:56,720 --> 01:42:02,860 full action to a certain degree then yeah probably should take their guns away. 1635 01:42:02,860 --> 01:42:07,720 Probably the details that you both mentioned is to determine what that line is in terms 1636 01:42:07,720 --> 01:42:12,000 of threat full action and then what that line is in terms of mental illness that could lead 1637 01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:14,200 to threat full action right. 1638 01:42:14,200 --> 01:42:21,400 So how do we use these laws in trying to prevent seeing these bad actors from obtaining a gun 1639 01:42:21,400 --> 01:42:25,400 to help deter mass shootings. 1640 01:42:25,400 --> 01:42:34,600 Well I think that again right empowering the police right and other institutions law enforcement 1641 01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:42,000 institutions to basically prevent the sale of firearms and in some extreme cases confiscating 1642 01:42:42,000 --> 01:42:48,960 the firearms of people who have been deemed a threat a credible threat. 1643 01:42:48,960 --> 01:42:51,360 I want the threshold to be high for that. 1644 01:42:51,360 --> 01:42:52,360 I do. 1645 01:42:52,360 --> 01:42:53,360 Right. 1646 01:42:53,360 --> 01:42:56,080 I don't want any willy nilly oh he made a mean tweet about me on Twitter right. 1647 01:42:56,080 --> 01:42:57,640 I don't want that to be the threshold. 1648 01:42:57,640 --> 01:43:01,680 I want the threshold to be much higher than that but I do think there has to be a line 1649 01:43:01,680 --> 01:43:04,200 where we say OK this is too much. 1650 01:43:04,200 --> 01:43:06,200 The threat of violence is too real. 1651 01:43:06,200 --> 01:43:11,160 We at least temporarily have to come in and take this person's guns. 1652 01:43:11,160 --> 01:43:17,760 So I want to add to the scenario a little bit and then Jonathan obviously you can answer 1653 01:43:17,760 --> 01:43:23,760 could guns be taken out the household if not the adult is a bad actor but the kid is a 1654 01:43:23,760 --> 01:43:33,200 bad actor. 1655 01:43:33,200 --> 01:43:34,840 I would say no. 1656 01:43:34,840 --> 01:43:45,020 But what I would say you could do is ensure and sanction the adult to properly lock and 1657 01:43:45,020 --> 01:43:53,120 have them in a safe require that you've been a safe. 1658 01:43:53,120 --> 01:43:55,280 No I disagree here again. 1659 01:43:55,280 --> 01:44:00,000 I think that when you were a parent you have responsibilities and one of those responsibilities 1660 01:44:00,000 --> 01:44:02,800 is to make sure your kid doesn't do stupid shit. 1661 01:44:02,800 --> 01:44:03,800 Right. 1662 01:44:03,800 --> 01:44:04,800 Excuse my French. 1663 01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:05,800 I apologize. 1664 01:44:05,800 --> 01:44:14,520 But I think that if your child has demonstrated that they are a threat that yes it's unfortunate 1665 01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:18,480 that your rights have to be restricted a little bit but they will have to be restricted a 1666 01:44:18,480 --> 01:44:24,920 little bit in this case because you if the child is living with you right. 1667 01:44:24,920 --> 01:44:26,720 It's just a necessary step. 1668 01:44:26,720 --> 01:44:28,140 It sucks for you. 1669 01:44:28,140 --> 01:44:29,280 No doubt. 1670 01:44:29,280 --> 01:44:37,240 But again because you are a parent there are certain things you have to do and responsibilities 1671 01:44:37,240 --> 01:44:41,080 you have to fulfill that if you were not a parent you would not have to fulfill those 1672 01:44:41,080 --> 01:44:42,080 things. 1673 01:44:42,080 --> 01:44:43,620 You get tax breaks for being a parent. 1674 01:44:43,620 --> 01:44:47,680 So with great tax break comes great responsibility. 1675 01:44:47,680 --> 01:44:52,680 So what I would say to that the way that I would I would come at that is I agree right. 1676 01:44:52,680 --> 01:44:54,960 Parents have the obligation. 1677 01:44:54,960 --> 01:44:59,680 They have responsibilities that they otherwise otherwise you wouldn't have. 1678 01:44:59,680 --> 01:45:03,560 But it's not the state's job to ensure that the parents are doing their job. 1679 01:45:03,560 --> 01:45:04,560 Yes. 1680 01:45:04,560 --> 01:45:06,060 Yes it is. 1681 01:45:06,060 --> 01:45:12,480 Like if parents are not feeding their kid the state has a responsibility to make sure 1682 01:45:12,480 --> 01:45:13,960 that that kid gets fed. 1683 01:45:13,960 --> 01:45:18,800 It's absolutely this in the interest of the state and the community to make sure that 1684 01:45:18,800 --> 01:45:20,840 the parents are doing their job. 1685 01:45:20,840 --> 01:45:23,880 Yeah in certain circumstances I would agree. 1686 01:45:23,880 --> 01:45:24,880 OK. 1687 01:45:24,880 --> 01:45:27,080 But I would take this more case by case. 1688 01:45:27,080 --> 01:45:28,080 OK. 1689 01:45:28,080 --> 01:45:29,080 I wouldn't apply. 1690 01:45:29,080 --> 01:45:33,880 I think this is my personal I won't get into that because that's a different topic. 1691 01:45:33,880 --> 01:45:39,320 But so if the parent has a child right it is his responsibility to discipline the child 1692 01:45:39,320 --> 01:45:46,120 and make sure that they don't misbehave and act in that delinquent sort of fashion. 1693 01:45:46,120 --> 01:45:50,280 It is not when it comes to that particular circumstance right. 1694 01:45:50,280 --> 01:45:54,960 The particular and I'm being very specific here in this circumstance that in the circumstance 1695 01:45:54,960 --> 01:45:59,000 parents own a gun child has delinquent tendencies. 1696 01:45:59,000 --> 01:46:05,840 The state should not come and confiscate those guns because that is not at the state's that's 1697 01:46:05,840 --> 01:46:09,760 not quite their domain yet. 1698 01:46:09,760 --> 01:46:13,480 Right what the parent I think the parent would have obligations on their own. 1699 01:46:13,480 --> 01:46:18,440 Maybe if they believe it to be necessary they opt to give their guns away. 1700 01:46:18,440 --> 01:46:24,520 They opt to make sure I don't want this in my house because I'm scared for my child or 1701 01:46:24,520 --> 01:46:26,000 my child might do. 1702 01:46:26,000 --> 01:46:28,120 But that is not yet the domain of the state. 1703 01:46:28,120 --> 01:46:31,480 Come in and say you must do X Y Z. 1704 01:46:31,480 --> 01:46:32,480 So parents. 1705 01:46:32,480 --> 01:46:33,480 Well let me. 1706 01:46:33,480 --> 01:46:40,000 Let me try to widen the perspective of the scenario a little bit because I like to gauge 1707 01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:43,000 where people at when it comes to these thresholds right. 1708 01:46:43,000 --> 01:46:50,000 So let's say in a situation where there's the parent has a kid one parent just a mother 1709 01:46:50,000 --> 01:46:52,400 that is gone don't know where he's at. 1710 01:46:52,400 --> 01:46:55,160 The kid is a bad actor. 1711 01:46:55,160 --> 01:46:56,320 What has he done. 1712 01:46:56,320 --> 01:46:59,440 He gets in constant fights at school. 1713 01:46:59,440 --> 01:47:02,760 He's beat the kid to the point where you went to the hospital. 1714 01:47:02,760 --> 01:47:04,760 He's threatened people with knives. 1715 01:47:04,760 --> 01:47:09,000 He's killed animals and that small animals. 1716 01:47:09,000 --> 01:47:11,240 He's even threatened the teacher one time. 1717 01:47:11,240 --> 01:47:13,440 One time he says I'm going to kill you. 1718 01:47:13,440 --> 01:47:19,640 In this situation all of this is very obviously very cumulative cumulative to the point where 1719 01:47:19,640 --> 01:47:23,640 obviously the state or the cops or whatever is getting involved. 1720 01:47:23,640 --> 01:47:30,200 At that point when you know this kid is a bad actor for sure and you know there is a 1721 01:47:30,200 --> 01:47:32,720 gun in the house. 1722 01:47:32,720 --> 01:47:39,200 Do you allow if you had if you had the choice would you take the gun out of that house. 1723 01:47:39,200 --> 01:47:44,600 And I as the state taking the guns. 1724 01:47:44,600 --> 01:47:45,600 Try to think of it. 1725 01:47:45,600 --> 01:47:50,340 I mean I understand I completely understand the concept of I want to make sure I'm establishing 1726 01:47:50,340 --> 01:47:52,840 something that doesn't give the state too much power. 1727 01:47:52,840 --> 01:47:57,900 But think of it basically on your own kind of point of view of the scenario and then 1728 01:47:57,900 --> 01:48:02,280 we can talk about the legit logistics of the state potentially having too much power. 1729 01:48:02,280 --> 01:48:05,960 So, I'm probably going to give an unpopular answer here. 1730 01:48:05,960 --> 01:48:06,960 OK. 1731 01:48:06,960 --> 01:48:07,960 And so. 1732 01:48:07,960 --> 01:48:12,240 So, the problem at this point is not with the mother. 1733 01:48:12,240 --> 01:48:13,920 The mother owns the firearm. 1734 01:48:13,920 --> 01:48:15,600 The student does not. 1735 01:48:15,600 --> 01:48:20,800 This this this delinquent is committing offenses. 1736 01:48:20,800 --> 01:48:25,200 They are the ones that need to face the consequences for their actions which means we might take 1737 01:48:25,200 --> 01:48:27,520 him to a rehabilitation facility. 1738 01:48:27,520 --> 01:48:29,760 I just got out of a juvenile justice class. 1739 01:48:29,760 --> 01:48:35,800 So, I'm familiar with a lot of them and there are many facilities that are not prisons but 1740 01:48:35,800 --> 01:48:38,840 instead rehabilitation centers that are full time live in. 1741 01:48:38,840 --> 01:48:42,640 If this person is killing animals you know telling teachers that they're violent having 1742 01:48:42,640 --> 01:48:44,480 encounters with the police. 1743 01:48:44,480 --> 01:48:49,320 We need to do something to help him not punish the mother. 1744 01:48:49,320 --> 01:48:52,160 The student would have no consequences. 1745 01:48:52,160 --> 01:48:57,640 They would not understand the situation any better if we remove the gun from the house. 1746 01:48:57,640 --> 01:49:02,240 That is actually what is reinforcing the fact that you are a credible threat but we're not 1747 01:49:02,240 --> 01:49:04,320 going to do anything about it quite yet. 1748 01:49:04,320 --> 01:49:06,720 We're just going to remove this firearm. 1749 01:49:06,720 --> 01:49:09,720 That's not going to do anything for the kid. 1750 01:49:09,720 --> 01:49:10,920 It's actually just going to reinforce. 1751 01:49:10,920 --> 01:49:12,360 What about the interim? 1752 01:49:12,360 --> 01:49:16,280 Like the interim between them getting the kid out of the house because I don't necessarily 1753 01:49:16,280 --> 01:49:17,280 disagree with you. 1754 01:49:17,280 --> 01:49:19,080 I think that in certain cases. 1755 01:49:19,080 --> 01:49:20,080 Yeah. 1756 01:49:20,080 --> 01:49:26,080 Removing the child from the from the guns is an equally valid choice but in the interim 1757 01:49:26,080 --> 01:49:29,880 where they're waiting for the processing to go through or waiting for these things to 1758 01:49:29,880 --> 01:49:30,880 go through. 1759 01:49:30,880 --> 01:49:34,680 What about them for the five days, two days, three days, however long it takes? 1760 01:49:34,680 --> 01:49:37,680 I wouldn't be opposed to that at all. 1761 01:49:37,680 --> 01:49:38,680 Okay. 1762 01:49:38,680 --> 01:49:43,320 So you can remove the guns temporarily until the person is extricated from the household. 1763 01:49:43,320 --> 01:49:44,320 Sure. 1764 01:49:44,320 --> 01:49:47,880 Yeah depending on the circumstances you know how they do that because in some states they'll 1765 01:49:47,880 --> 01:49:52,360 probably just put them in jail which is I don't think. 1766 01:49:52,360 --> 01:49:57,480 This is one thing that I have actually changed my mind on right when I started taking my 1767 01:49:57,480 --> 01:50:04,240 class I was not opposed to juveniles being placed in jail after the class. 1768 01:50:04,240 --> 01:50:06,520 This is something I have changed my mind on. 1769 01:50:06,520 --> 01:50:11,360 There's so much research that shows that it just promotes even more delinquency. 1770 01:50:11,360 --> 01:50:15,200 There has to be a line where you know that there's consequences for their actions but 1771 01:50:15,200 --> 01:50:18,960 I'm not in favor of putting juveniles in jail. 1772 01:50:18,960 --> 01:50:24,380 So that's why I say they make these rehabilitation centers that are really schools that just 1773 01:50:24,380 --> 01:50:27,720 have thicker walls pretty much. 1774 01:50:27,720 --> 01:50:29,680 Okay. 1775 01:50:29,680 --> 01:50:35,840 So I mean from what it sounds like you know we definitely came around a lot of important 1776 01:50:35,840 --> 01:50:40,280 distinctions in terms of these extreme risk laws these red flag laws. 1777 01:50:40,280 --> 01:50:42,960 We don't want bad actors to have guns. 1778 01:50:42,960 --> 01:50:48,680 We want to make sure that guns in general shouldn't be around a place of a potential 1779 01:50:48,680 --> 01:50:50,680 risk factor. 1780 01:50:50,680 --> 01:50:55,520 So with that said my final thing that I'm going to bring up and then we're going to 1781 01:50:55,520 --> 01:51:02,360 wrap up the show is the there has been some solutions that I've seen and they're called 1782 01:51:02,360 --> 01:51:08,640 violence intervention programs and basically these programs are things that every community 1783 01:51:08,640 --> 01:51:15,800 should have to kind of incentivize non-violence try to create you know plans or policies in 1784 01:51:15,800 --> 01:51:23,320 their local community to either train or you know get with families or basically at the 1785 01:51:23,320 --> 01:51:32,000 end of the day making the violence prevention aspect of that we're talking about much more 1786 01:51:32,000 --> 01:51:38,040 local and much more individualized in these communities. 1787 01:51:38,040 --> 01:51:45,520 So in these what that said do you believe these violent intervention programs in every 1788 01:51:45,520 --> 01:51:51,760 community would be a good thing in terms of deterring mass shootings? 1789 01:51:51,760 --> 01:51:55,120 It couldn't hurt like I don't think it'll hurt. 1790 01:51:55,120 --> 01:52:02,320 I think it'll I'm not familiar enough with the programs to talk about their efficacy 1791 01:52:02,320 --> 01:52:03,720 right and whether they work. 1792 01:52:03,720 --> 01:52:05,960 I don't think it's going to make the problem worse. 1793 01:52:05,960 --> 01:52:12,400 I think that there is the danger does lie in kind of like an empty calorie solution 1794 01:52:12,400 --> 01:52:16,600 right where something's proposed as a solution it's touted as a solution but it doesn't 1795 01:52:16,600 --> 01:52:17,920 actually solve things. 1796 01:52:17,920 --> 01:52:21,640 I'm not familiar enough about the program to speak to that but that is something that 1797 01:52:21,640 --> 01:52:26,240 we have to look into so if it can be demonstrated that these VIPs these violence intervention 1798 01:52:26,240 --> 01:52:32,080 programs are efficacious right then why not? 1799 01:52:32,080 --> 01:52:36,960 I just again we talked about one of the problems being culture and if that can help with the 1800 01:52:36,960 --> 01:52:41,600 culture I'm all for it. 1801 01:52:41,600 --> 01:52:43,320 Any thoughts around that? 1802 01:52:43,320 --> 01:52:49,280 So I do in some ways if it's okay with you I would like to take a very broad and very 1803 01:52:49,280 --> 01:52:52,320 zoomed out perspective on this. 1804 01:52:52,320 --> 01:52:59,640 So right one of the big problems with mass shootings is gang violence right. 1805 01:52:59,640 --> 01:53:09,320 So most gang violence well so most juveniles who join gangs are very very very highly they're 1806 01:53:09,320 --> 01:53:13,080 much more likely to be violent. 1807 01:53:13,080 --> 01:53:16,000 Most juveniles will join a gang by the age of 15. 1808 01:53:16,000 --> 01:53:22,280 15 to 18 is kind of the onboarding age for most gangs. 1809 01:53:22,280 --> 01:53:28,160 When we're looking at these violent intervention programs most that's a community control program 1810 01:53:28,160 --> 01:53:31,800 typically right is that what you're kind of referring to? 1811 01:53:31,800 --> 01:53:37,800 So yeah community control can work great for people who have not been to prison already. 1812 01:53:37,800 --> 01:53:45,600 And so if we get these kids by age 15 to 18 I think they could be very effective right. 1813 01:53:45,600 --> 01:53:49,440 There is a very famous example once again I'll have to send it to you because I don't 1814 01:53:49,440 --> 01:53:53,840 recall right off the top of the noggin but it was in Detroit and it was a community that 1815 01:53:53,840 --> 01:53:58,000 had a super high violence rate at this particular school. 1816 01:53:58,000 --> 01:54:04,060 And so the community sent in a bunch of middle-aged dads and they wore shirts that's like Detroit 1817 01:54:04,060 --> 01:54:07,520 for dads or something along those lines very corny very cheesy stuff. 1818 01:54:07,520 --> 01:54:13,520 But that school drastically turned down their violence just like it was five to eight dads 1819 01:54:13,520 --> 01:54:17,860 every day from the local community would go and they take afternoons off and spend the 1820 01:54:17,860 --> 01:54:19,240 whole day at school. 1821 01:54:19,240 --> 01:54:24,240 I would say that's an example of a community control violence prevention program. 1822 01:54:24,240 --> 01:54:25,760 Very very efficacious. 1823 01:54:25,760 --> 01:54:30,120 Now if it was to be a community control program for somebody who's already committed violence 1824 01:54:30,120 --> 01:54:33,880 they've been in gangs and they've already gone to prison it's not going to be very effective 1825 01:54:33,880 --> 01:54:35,640 to stop that. 1826 01:54:35,640 --> 01:54:41,480 But if we can get them when they're younger then I think it would be very good and I'd 1827 01:54:41,480 --> 01:54:42,680 be very pro that. 1828 01:54:42,680 --> 01:54:46,600 I'm very pro community control when we're building a sense of culture when we're building 1829 01:54:46,600 --> 01:54:50,840 a sense of meaning it just has to be right otherwise it's going to be this empty calorie 1830 01:54:50,840 --> 01:54:54,880 scenario where it's not doing any good and we're just spending a lot of money on something 1831 01:54:54,880 --> 01:54:57,080 that's not going to be super effective. 1832 01:54:57,080 --> 01:55:02,480 Unfortunately there comes a point when people just their community control won't work for 1833 01:55:02,480 --> 01:55:03,480 them. 1834 01:55:03,480 --> 01:55:10,960 Yeah I definitely hear what you're saying because I am not a fan of like doing things 1835 01:55:10,960 --> 01:55:17,640 that offer no proper solution at the end of the day or provide any proper results. 1836 01:55:17,640 --> 01:55:23,200 This is just one of the solutions I saw when I was like doing my own research with everything 1837 01:55:23,200 --> 01:55:29,060 and they talked about these type of programs and inherently I'm all for with establishing 1838 01:55:29,060 --> 01:55:35,880 a sense of community especially when these areas are the more impoverished areas right 1839 01:55:35,880 --> 01:55:42,920 and the kind of loss of value the loss of purpose that I was eliciting earlier can be 1840 01:55:42,920 --> 01:55:49,040 kind of mitigated with these type of programs where you're meeting up constantly going over 1841 01:55:49,040 --> 01:55:50,040 these situations. 1842 01:55:50,040 --> 01:55:54,880 I do hope that it's not just oh guns are bad like if it doesn't okay we all know guns are 1843 01:55:54,880 --> 01:56:03,120 bad but it starts establishing a sense of community immediately with those persons that 1844 01:56:03,120 --> 01:56:09,220 are potential risk and I do think you can obviously there might be some education that 1845 01:56:09,220 --> 01:56:17,560 goes into these programs and establish kind of sense of movement or advocacy group that 1846 01:56:17,560 --> 01:56:26,000 can kind of elicit the type of prongs that you need to teach said individuals in establishing 1847 01:56:26,000 --> 01:56:31,680 a proper community in whatever area you're in and that makes it a lot more uniform and 1848 01:56:31,680 --> 01:56:38,540 a lot more collective when it comes to different areas throughout the country. 1849 01:56:38,540 --> 01:56:44,700 But at the end of the day I agree with that if done right it can provide a lot of useful 1850 01:56:44,700 --> 01:56:49,840 tools for the people and one other thing that I was going to bring up is what do you all 1851 01:56:49,840 --> 01:56:58,960 think about more security at schools and more security at public areas? 1852 01:56:58,960 --> 01:57:05,840 Within reason right I mean like there's always a balance between security and freedom and 1853 01:57:05,840 --> 01:57:11,720 I think that like for example metal detectors and some schools that higher schools could 1854 01:57:11,720 --> 01:57:18,800 you know possibly be a useful tool in other cases like a metal detector before going into 1855 01:57:18,800 --> 01:57:23,560 a park or something would be weird I don't like that and like because you mentioned public 1856 01:57:23,560 --> 01:57:25,400 spaces as well. 1857 01:57:25,400 --> 01:57:35,080 So again I don't want these incidences of violence to change my life in the sense that 1858 01:57:35,080 --> 01:57:40,360 I'm always afraid I'm always scared I'm always looking over my shoulder I'm always trying 1859 01:57:40,360 --> 01:57:51,880 to implement these very kind of invasive procedures and invasive techniques to try to limit the 1860 01:57:51,880 --> 01:57:52,880 risk to me. 1861 01:57:52,880 --> 01:57:55,560 Fear is a mind killer gang quote from Do. 1862 01:57:55,560 --> 01:57:57,720 Love it right. 1863 01:57:57,720 --> 01:58:01,240 If you're always living in fear you're not living life it's going to affect you it's 1864 01:58:01,240 --> 01:58:04,120 going to make you do bad things and cause bad choices. 1865 01:58:04,120 --> 01:58:16,040 So I think that again some low invasive steps and sometimes high invasive in certain incidences 1866 01:58:16,040 --> 01:58:25,160 like with high risk schools good but yeah otherwise I know it's probably not the best 1867 01:58:25,160 --> 01:58:27,080 answer but it's the answer you got. 1868 01:58:27,080 --> 01:58:30,640 I mean I definitely understand what you're saying. 1869 01:58:30,640 --> 01:58:36,880 My thing is I do think security probably would be beneficial in schools in general. 1870 01:58:36,880 --> 01:58:41,280 I remember there was a police officer in my school and you know he was just hanging around 1871 01:58:41,280 --> 01:58:46,000 you know he wasn't doing anything crazy he wasn't eyeing anybody down for being a delinquent 1872 01:58:46,000 --> 01:58:47,000 or anything. 1873 01:58:47,000 --> 01:58:51,760 To be fair my advocate my caveat with this is it wasn't like a high risk school it was 1874 01:58:51,760 --> 01:58:53,800 very suburban right. 1875 01:58:53,800 --> 01:58:58,520 So with that said a mixed group of people not a lot of fights at the end of the day 1876 01:58:58,520 --> 01:59:03,160 not a lot of violence but just an extra security measure. 1877 01:59:03,160 --> 01:59:08,880 And one thing that I always say when it comes down to you know at the very least one level 1878 01:59:08,880 --> 01:59:15,520 just one level of security is if you really think about yourself as an individual and 1879 01:59:15,520 --> 01:59:23,080 if you have the resources to send your kid to X Y and Z or send your loved one to X Y 1880 01:59:23,080 --> 01:59:31,080 and Z if you had the choice I feel like most people would send them to a place with plenty 1881 01:59:31,080 --> 01:59:32,080 of security. 1882 01:59:32,080 --> 01:59:37,480 They would even take the risk of said individual to get harmed or hurt. 1883 01:59:37,480 --> 01:59:43,160 There is a sense of potential stepping over the line in the freedoms if it goes too far 1884 01:59:43,160 --> 01:59:48,080 i.e. metal detectors i.e. like three security guards breathing down your neck making sure 1885 01:59:48,080 --> 01:59:54,360 that you're standing at attention and not roaming the halls during class like that's 1886 01:59:54,360 --> 01:59:57,120 going too far we don't need any of that. 1887 01:59:57,120 --> 02:00:05,880 But having one level of security purely for potential harm and potential risk that could 1888 02:00:05,880 --> 02:00:14,280 happen I don't think that will ever be a bad idea especially in public areas that we know 1889 02:00:14,280 --> 02:00:22,520 like schools like a park for example we know that everybody there is not there to protect 1890 02:00:22,520 --> 02:00:27,040 their lives they are there for a specific purpose whether it's chilling hanging out 1891 02:00:27,040 --> 02:00:31,800 learning they're not meant for any type of violence they're not meant for action and 1892 02:00:31,800 --> 02:00:33,720 they won't be able to deal with it. 1893 02:00:33,720 --> 02:00:39,080 So unless you have some marine that's luckily there with an AR on his back which you know 1894 02:00:39,080 --> 02:00:40,280 you won't have that. 1895 02:00:40,280 --> 02:00:45,960 So in these situations I feel like at the very least one level of security and then 1896 02:00:45,960 --> 02:00:51,960 you could potentially add more with the high risk areas should be a must. 1897 02:00:51,960 --> 02:00:58,840 So I am a proponent of putting SROs in schools SROs serve a lot of functions. 1898 02:00:58,840 --> 02:01:01,840 My caveat can you define SROs for the people. 1899 02:01:01,840 --> 02:01:06,280 Sorry sorry sorry student resource officers SROs. 1900 02:01:06,280 --> 02:01:13,040 My caveat is you have the metric for being a police officer right and for people watching 1901 02:01:13,040 --> 02:01:17,800 you'll see my hand here for student resource officers should be even higher. 1902 02:01:17,800 --> 02:01:21,520 Your metrics for being a student resource officer should be much much higher. 1903 02:01:21,520 --> 02:01:25,540 There should be higher requirements higher expectations for SROs because they're working 1904 02:01:25,540 --> 02:01:26,840 with students. 1905 02:01:26,840 --> 02:01:31,240 Unfortunately a lot of times it's the reverse it's the old officer that wants to retire 1906 02:01:31,240 --> 02:01:37,800 but still wants a little bit of money on the side and they go and they put them in schools. 1907 02:01:37,800 --> 02:01:45,080 I don't like metal detectors because it's dehumanizing and it's somewhat you know sometimes 1908 02:01:45,080 --> 02:01:51,360 it's required but I am I firmly believe that people will act how you treat them and this 1909 02:01:51,360 --> 02:01:53,760 is actually a criminological theory. 1910 02:01:53,760 --> 02:01:59,560 There's many different versions of it there's different iterations called but if you what 1911 02:01:59,560 --> 02:02:02,480 the most specific the most common one is labeling theory. 1912 02:02:02,480 --> 02:02:06,920 If you label someone a delinquent before they're a delinquent they're more likely to behave 1913 02:02:06,920 --> 02:02:08,320 in the manner in which you treat them. 1914 02:02:08,320 --> 02:02:13,520 So if you treat somebody as criminal they're going to act more criminal and if we have 1915 02:02:13,520 --> 02:02:17,600 we have if we're shaking down students every time they enter the building and we're treating 1916 02:02:17,600 --> 02:02:22,640 them like criminals they're going to be more likely to act like criminals. 1917 02:02:22,640 --> 02:02:29,720 If we get rid of the metal detectors you know there might be some preliminary issues maybe 1918 02:02:29,720 --> 02:02:35,880 people smuggling things in but if we take out a metal detector and and people the reason 1919 02:02:35,880 --> 02:02:39,640 we don't do this is because it's expensive because it's someone's salary but we put in 1920 02:02:39,640 --> 02:02:46,320 say two or three SROs who treat them like humans who treat them respectfully but yet 1921 02:02:46,320 --> 02:02:51,320 firmly with the law I think that'll actually have a better outcome. 1922 02:02:51,320 --> 02:02:56,560 Moreover SROs are some of the people who find fentanyl the most which is getting trafficked 1923 02:02:56,560 --> 02:02:59,880 into schools and killing more students. 1924 02:02:59,880 --> 02:03:04,200 Fentanyl is a crisis amongst young people who are starting because they don't know how to 1925 02:03:04,200 --> 02:03:07,320 control I mean there isn't really a way to control how much fentanyl you take you don't 1926 02:03:07,320 --> 02:03:11,400 really know but it's getting smuggled into schools and of course people are worried about 1927 02:03:11,400 --> 02:03:15,080 school shootings the topic of this discussion and metal detectors aren't going to stop school 1928 02:03:15,080 --> 02:03:20,040 shootings obviously but SROs will. 1929 02:03:20,040 --> 02:03:21,760 Yes sir. 1930 02:03:21,760 --> 02:03:26,900 With that said do you guys have any final opinions any final things you want to say 1931 02:03:26,900 --> 02:03:31,040 in regards to the mass shooting issue we've discussed a lot of different things a lot 1932 02:03:31,040 --> 02:03:36,600 of different solutions we discussed the importance of mental health and fixing the values and 1933 02:03:36,600 --> 02:03:41,880 the importance of establishing proper values and fixing the broken family homes and how 1934 02:03:41,880 --> 02:03:47,040 that would help in terms of mass shootings we talked about the potential positives of 1935 02:03:47,040 --> 02:03:53,280 certain laws to deter bad actors from getting guns whether that's a extreme risk law red 1936 02:03:53,280 --> 02:04:00,000 flag law we do kind of note that the threshold of said bad actor has to be high so we're 1937 02:04:00,000 --> 02:04:05,840 not infringing on everybody's rights you know criminals should not be given the same rights 1938 02:04:05,840 --> 02:04:10,880 as the everyday citizen of course and then obviously we talked a little bit about security 1939 02:04:10,880 --> 02:04:17,340 and violence prevention programs and how the violence intervention programs can potentially 1940 02:04:17,340 --> 02:04:25,040 establish a sense of community as well as teach the important aspects of violence for 1941 02:04:25,040 --> 02:04:31,940 the community security could just be a positive overall if done right so anything else do 1942 02:04:31,940 --> 02:04:35,880 you either of you want to add? 1943 02:04:35,880 --> 02:04:38,080 Gun violence bad? 1944 02:04:38,080 --> 02:04:39,800 Facts. 1945 02:04:39,800 --> 02:04:42,800 No cannons. 1946 02:04:42,800 --> 02:04:48,960 I was just about to say the opposite goodbye your cannons folks I'm just kidding half. 1947 02:04:48,960 --> 02:04:55,360 No I think this was a great discussion I enjoyed this I really appreciate Mr. Wick's nuanced 1948 02:04:55,360 --> 02:04:58,560 thoughts as yours as well Riddell. 1949 02:04:58,560 --> 02:05:02,760 Always that's all my thoughts are new ones you know what I'm saying so with that said 1950 02:05:02,760 --> 02:05:08,540 I hope you guys enjoyed today's discussion of course we will eventually start publishing 1951 02:05:08,540 --> 02:05:14,600 twice a week when I don't screw up the next upload of course and be back at whatever the 1952 02:05:14,600 --> 02:05:19,200 next discussion we're going to have I have a very interesting guest coming on too in 1953 02:05:19,200 --> 02:05:25,660 the future one very interesting one that you know I might I might tell you all afterwards 1954 02:05:25,660 --> 02:05:31,440 so with that said make sure you guys stay tuned for that of course Rated 5 stars check 1955 02:05:31,440 --> 02:05:36,640 out WickTV check out his content because he's having a lot of interesting debates that I 1956 02:05:36,640 --> 02:05:42,360 do at times watch while I'm at work to see what people are talking about and you know 1957 02:05:42,360 --> 02:05:46,000 sometimes people are making good points sometimes people are just blabbing you know it is it 1958 02:05:46,000 --> 02:05:51,000 is what it is so with that said he's doing something very similar check out his content 1959 02:05:51,000 --> 02:05:55,800 of course checking my guy Jonathan's podcast the classic life right? 1960 02:05:55,800 --> 02:05:57,240 Yes sir. 1961 02:05:57,240 --> 02:06:01,840 Of course so with that said hope you guys enjoyed you all have a good one take care 1962 02:06:01,840 --> 02:06:03,200 and peace. 1963 02:06:03,200 --> 02:06:08,120 Welcome to the Purple Political Breakdown I am glad you are here and I'm glad you are 1964 02:06:08,120 --> 02:06:11,400 listening to today's podcast episode. 1965 02:06:11,400 --> 02:06:17,840 My mission in each and every one of these episodes is to really focus on the solutions 1966 02:06:17,840 --> 02:06:23,920 to some of the biggest questions and most controversial topics going on in our current 1967 02:06:23,920 --> 02:06:24,920 society. 1968 02:06:24,920 --> 02:06:30,800 I feel like most of these conversations are not truly being discussed in a more logical 1969 02:06:30,800 --> 02:06:38,120 and respectful manner due to the political toxicity that goes on with both the left and 1970 02:06:38,120 --> 02:06:42,360 the right both the Democrats and the Republicans. 1971 02:06:42,360 --> 02:06:48,400 This podcast I don't care about any of that I am focused on the solutions I'm focused 1972 02:06:48,400 --> 02:06:50,400 on bridging gaps. 1973 02:06:50,400 --> 02:06:55,080 If you want to join me on this journey if you want to discuss some of the most important 1974 02:06:55,080 --> 02:07:02,160 topics if you are tired of the political toxicity and negativity from both sides please support 1975 02:07:02,160 --> 02:07:11,400 this channel share the podcast and go to my website www.purplepoliticalbreakdown.com. 1976 02:07:11,400 --> 02:07:16,180 I appreciate the support I'll continue to make content and hopefully we can start bridging 1977 02:07:16,180 --> 02:07:25,200 these gaps and focusing on real issues going on in our world.