#30 - Unveiling the Truth: The Failed Promise of Affirmative Action in America

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,200 Welcome to the purple political breakdown. 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:10,500 Over the five years that affirmative action was banned before that was kind of repealed, 3 00:00:10,500 --> 00:00:17,700 and then they could go back to affirmative action, is actually they did not have any less minority graduates. 4 00:00:17,700 --> 00:00:26,100 Massive stigma against true old school work that like Jonathan has said, produces so much, right? 5 00:00:26,100 --> 00:00:29,700 Even without even going into a trade, going into just the federal workforce, 6 00:00:29,700 --> 00:00:32,600 Jonathan talked about like waste management. 7 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:34,400 What's even better than waste management? 8 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,800 Have you ever looked into the payment salaries of the postal service before? 9 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:42,200 So the minority communities where they're struggling in whatever situation, 10 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:47,000 whether it's, you know, supporting your kids, whether it's being an environment full of crime, 11 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:51,200 whether it's trying to put food on the table, they obviously need jobs. 12 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:57,000 And they obviously, if they are discriminated at any point throughout their job process, 13 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:01,100 that can definitely ruin the livelihood of everybody they're taking care of. 14 00:01:01,100 --> 00:01:04,800 Do you want a great website like this? 15 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:10,500 This is my podcast website where I direct the audience to come to watch the content, 16 00:01:10,500 --> 00:01:14,500 listen to the content, read the blogs and much, much more. 17 00:01:14,500 --> 00:01:18,500 If you want to have your own customizable podcast website, 18 00:01:18,500 --> 00:01:24,100 then join my affiliate link in my description to sign up for something called pod page. 19 00:01:24,100 --> 00:01:32,200 And they can help you customize an easy podcast website for your personal podcast. 20 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,600 Sign up to get a discount now. 21 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:40,300 Again, use the link in my description to join pod page now. 22 00:01:40,300 --> 00:01:43,500 Are you enjoying today's podcast episode? 23 00:01:43,500 --> 00:01:45,600 I really hope you do. 24 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:50,300 And I really hope you enjoy the fact that I have an amazing guest talking with me 25 00:01:50,300 --> 00:01:52,900 and having this great discussion. 26 00:01:52,900 --> 00:01:56,800 If you as an individual personally have your own podcast, 27 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,400 and maybe you want to have great guests on your podcast as well. 28 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:02,700 Well, I got a deal for you. 29 00:02:02,700 --> 00:02:06,500 In my description, there is a link to something called pod match. 30 00:02:06,500 --> 00:02:09,700 Make sure to join that link through my affiliate link 31 00:02:09,700 --> 00:02:15,200 so you can sign up to get matched up with other podcast hosts and podcast guests. 32 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:20,400 So you make sure you are never missing an episode without a productive guest 33 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,200 to have an amazing conversation with. 34 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,800 Pod match is similar to any other kind of matching site for the most part. 35 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,000 And it's super easy. 36 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:30,900 You just six dollars a month. 37 00:02:30,900 --> 00:02:38,200 You can have a guest for each and every podcast episode that is tailored to your specific topic. 38 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:44,300 So again, join the link in my description and join pod match now. 39 00:02:44,300 --> 00:02:45,700 Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. 40 00:02:45,700 --> 00:02:49,800 This is episode number 30 of the Purple Political Breakdown. 41 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,700 And we are back at it again. 42 00:02:51,700 --> 00:02:54,500 Obviously, I'm going to make sure that I'm recording the audio. 43 00:02:54,500 --> 00:02:57,200 I am. So I'm not making the mistake again. 44 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,900 And today we're going to be talking about affirmative action. 45 00:03:00,900 --> 00:03:06,300 Obviously, there's going to be there was a lot of buzz about it considering the Supreme Court ruling, 46 00:03:06,300 --> 00:03:12,800 but it doesn't really stop there because obviously the another aspect of affirmative action revolves around the workplace. 47 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:19,400 So we're going to suggest affirmative action in both aspects education and the workplace and all that good jazz. 48 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:25,600 Of course, I have my two co-hosts here today with me and Jonathan and Paul. 49 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:27,000 So how y'all doing? 50 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,800 How you how you feeling? 51 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:30,800 I'm feeling good. 52 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:36,400 This time I made sure that I looked up all the quotes that I wanted to quote before. 53 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:41,400 So I have those ready to send you some interesting articles that I've been reading getting ready for this podcast. 54 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,200 So I'm excited about this one. 55 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,100 All right. Excellent. Excellent. 56 00:03:45,100 --> 00:03:46,500 How you feeling, Paul? 57 00:03:46,500 --> 00:03:49,200 I'm great, man. Thanks for asking. 58 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,400 Honestly, I probably won't yield much on this conversation. 59 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,800 I'm probably actually agree with Jonathan for a lot of stuff. 60 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,200 So still looking forward to talking about it. 61 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:58,600 But yeah. All right. 62 00:03:58,600 --> 00:03:59,400 And fair enough. 63 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:04,900 Fair enough. So before we dive into the topic of the day, of course, I'm going to read out a review. 64 00:04:04,900 --> 00:04:13,000 Of course, you guys can leave a review on Apple podcast or the website, www.purplepoliticalbreakdown.com. 65 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,100 So you can get shouted out for a future episode. 66 00:04:15,100 --> 00:04:18,000 Of course, this reviews from Juby Jew. 67 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:26,500 They said in a world where people are getting canceled over the political affiliation, it's refreshing to see a podcast like this. 68 00:04:26,500 --> 00:04:27,700 Yeah, of course. 69 00:04:27,700 --> 00:04:33,300 Funny thing that this person said that I don't know if you guys are caught up with it because it's happened on social media. 70 00:04:33,300 --> 00:04:39,400 But apparently a lot of progressives are attacking a fellow progressive and Anna Kasparian. 71 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,100 Yeah. So yeah. 72 00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:45,000 Yeah. So a lot of progressives are attacking her. 73 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,600 So it's like, wow, man, nobody is safe. 74 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:50,100 Even people on the left is not safe. 75 00:04:50,100 --> 00:04:53,300 So yes, that was that was interesting to say. 76 00:04:53,300 --> 00:04:59,300 So, you know, you people get canceled left and right for political affiliation, no matter where you are. 77 00:04:59,300 --> 00:05:02,600 But on this podcast, that's no that's not what we tend to do. 78 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,900 We don't care about all those labels. 79 00:05:04,900 --> 00:05:06,400 We don't care about all that. 80 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:10,600 So let's start off with the what you need to know. 81 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:15,300 What is going on currently in America or the world, matter of fact? 82 00:05:15,300 --> 00:05:22,000 And to start off, we got the unfortunate mass shooting in South Philly that has occurred. 83 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:31,900 I believe five people were killed and a couple of people were injured during the July the Fourth of July holiday weekend ish. 84 00:05:31,900 --> 00:05:34,800 Also, we got another unfortunate event. 85 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,500 Well, to some people may be positive. 86 00:05:37,500 --> 00:05:42,000 Israel launched an attack that killed 13 Palestinians. 87 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,400 Now, I'm sure you guys will have opinions on this. 88 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,100 I personally don't have a strong opinion. 89 00:05:48,100 --> 00:05:50,500 I don't really have a side I'm picking for. 90 00:05:50,500 --> 00:05:53,500 But, you know, unfortunate circumstance altogether. 91 00:05:53,500 --> 00:05:57,400 Meta launches threads and Twitter is pissed. 92 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:05,800 Will this new social media platform be the new competitor to the more popular, probably the most popular social media platform? 93 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:07,600 Not counting the video ones. 94 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,200 So we'll see what happens. 95 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:14,900 Of course, we got the interesting news and cocaine being found in the White House. 96 00:06:14,900 --> 00:06:17,400 I'm sure people have heard that, of course. 97 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:19,000 And sugar. 98 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:20,300 Yes. 99 00:06:20,300 --> 00:06:21,200 Great. 100 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:23,000 Great place to have cocaine in the White House. 101 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:34,300 And last one is the a judge in Florida blocks to perform a provision that will limit Latino voter registration, more so immigrants. 102 00:06:34,300 --> 00:06:36,900 And there's potential. 103 00:06:36,900 --> 00:06:47,400 I don't look into exactly what the law said, but there's some concern that, you know, Florida was trying to pass a law that would kind of infringe on immigrants rights in terms of voting. 104 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,400 So a judge blocked that. 105 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,100 So we'll see what happens regarding that moving forward. 106 00:06:52,100 --> 00:06:54,400 So a lot of interesting news. 107 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,500 What what do you guys think about what's going on? 108 00:06:57,500 --> 00:07:04,000 I haven't had much of a chance to scroll through and read about them. 109 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,000 I heard about some of those, but I did get to play around with the threads app. 110 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:08,800 It'll be interesting. 111 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:18,100 I think the way they have it set up is it might be feasible competition to Twitter to Twitter in the future for sure. 112 00:07:18,100 --> 00:07:24,300 I think for the holiday violence stuff, you know, it's like always a like a real shame. 113 00:07:24,300 --> 00:07:30,200 Additionally, like a seven year old girl was killed in Tampa, Florida, just out of the blue. 114 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,200 And, you know, it just sucks. 115 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:32,700 Right. 116 00:07:32,700 --> 00:07:37,000 Like on a day where we're supposed to be proud to be Americans, people take other Americans lives. 117 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,400 So it's nothing that's too great. 118 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:48,800 But yeah, aside from that, I'm going to play defense for the Biden White House, of course, as far as we know, 119 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:53,100 the cocaine was located in a highly civilian traffic area. 120 00:07:53,100 --> 00:07:58,300 Thus, I can conclude that it was not from Joseph Biden yet. 121 00:07:58,300 --> 00:07:59,100 Okay. 122 00:07:59,100 --> 00:08:01,800 If it's the sun, you know, he's just a good. 123 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:02,800 No, I think it's from a son. 124 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,600 I don't think they're claiming that it's Joe's. 125 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:12,600 Is it I thought the claim was always that it was going to be hunters when anything goes wrong and to blame Hunter, obviously. 126 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:13,700 Yeah, pretty much. 127 00:08:13,700 --> 00:08:14,400 Yeah, of course. 128 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,600 It's like the perfect fall guy and also real guy because he does do it. 129 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:19,000 Yeah. 130 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:25,400 Wasn't there that video where he was driving and he was what was he putting in the system while he was driving? 131 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,400 He was smoking meth and he's meth. 132 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,500 I'm like, bro, what is wrong with this guy? 133 00:08:31,500 --> 00:08:38,400 So and the funny part, I recently I saw on Twitter because Twitter is such a great platform, right? 134 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:39,400 Donald Trump Jr. 135 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,700 was getting exposed to because he was at a gay club doing certain things. 136 00:08:42,700 --> 00:08:47,600 So, you know, was he really it wasn't apparently it was to be fair. 137 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,200 I know nothing about the woman. 138 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:49,800 He did it. 139 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:50,900 He apparently was a woman. 140 00:08:50,900 --> 00:08:52,600 He didn't with friend. 141 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:53,600 Oh, yeah. 142 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,400 Yeah. 143 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:56,400 Hey, do your thing, man. 144 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:57,400 Do you think no, no, no. 145 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,800 That's what you want of our. 146 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:07,400 I genuinely have I feel like we always for some reason put our politicians on pedestals. 147 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:12,700 And so we're always like surprised and appalled when they do like bad things. 148 00:09:12,700 --> 00:09:17,400 It's like we gave completely average people by every metric of society. 149 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,300 These are like the most average people and we put them up on these pedestals. 150 00:09:21,300 --> 00:09:28,000 We give them all this power, all this authority, and we just expect them to like use it appropriately all the time. 151 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,500 It's like, yeah, but sometimes it's like perfect individuals all the time. 152 00:09:32,500 --> 00:09:37,600 Sometimes they go like way past being even normal citizen. 153 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,000 I don't know if you guys remember that one guy. 154 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,900 He was really young, like around me and Jonathan's age, at least. 155 00:09:44,900 --> 00:09:49,900 And he became a senator and Madison Hawthorne. 156 00:09:49,900 --> 00:09:55,300 He was talking about how all these senators were asking him to join in a bunch of orgies. 157 00:09:55,300 --> 00:09:58,000 You guys remember that Madison Hawthorne? Yep. 158 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,800 And then he just got blacklisted immediately and never won again. 159 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,500 Yep. So I mean, I don't know. 160 00:10:04,500 --> 00:10:11,200 I feel like these politicians, they're into some freaky stuff over there. 161 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,900 Well, yeah, that's like absolute power corrupts. 162 00:10:13,900 --> 00:10:16,700 Absolutely. Like I think that's a real thing. 163 00:10:16,700 --> 00:10:18,100 Oh, yeah. 100 percent agree. 164 00:10:18,100 --> 00:10:20,100 We know this, you know, Jeffrey Epstein. 165 00:10:20,100 --> 00:10:22,800 We know this. So yeah. 166 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:28,100 With that said, we'll dive into the topic at hand in regards to affirmative action. 167 00:10:28,100 --> 00:10:30,800 Like I said, we're to be talking about it in kind of two fronts. 168 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:37,300 Obviously, the Supreme Court ruled that affirmative action in education is unconstitutional. 169 00:10:37,300 --> 00:10:45,300 Apparently, they indicated this because violated the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment, 170 00:10:45,300 --> 00:10:50,400 which states I'm going to state something for people so no people know actually what's going on. 171 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:56,500 All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof 172 00:10:56,500 --> 00:11:01,200 are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. 173 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:09,700 No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States, 174 00:11:09,700 --> 00:11:15,700 nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property without the due process of law, 175 00:11:15,700 --> 00:11:22,000 nor denied to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. 176 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:23,500 So this is kind of what they use. 177 00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:31,600 They also noted that for the most part, people can kind of like consider race to an extent. 178 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:39,100 Apparently, one of the rules or one of the opinions that was said is that you can talk about your life, 179 00:11:39,100 --> 00:11:47,800 how race played into your life, but there can't be like dedicated essays or applications for you being a particular race. 180 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,000 It's kind of what I saw. 181 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:58,600 They also noted that military academies are exempt from this rule, so they can still use affirmative action, which is interesting. 182 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:06,300 So I know last episode, me and Paul talked about a little bit, but just so we're all up to speed, 183 00:12:06,300 --> 00:12:11,300 what do you guys think about the ruling regarding affirmative action education? 184 00:12:11,300 --> 00:12:13,700 I think it's a good thing. 185 00:12:13,700 --> 00:12:19,200 I think it is a positive that affirmative action is harder to use. 186 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:25,100 Like you brought up, though, John Robertson, who wrote the majority opinion, 187 00:12:25,100 --> 00:12:29,100 he put in that kind of clause that you can still talk about it. 188 00:12:29,100 --> 00:12:36,200 So Harvard pretty much, as I understand, immediately set out a memo saying they're going to just give a bunch of credence 189 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:42,500 now to the essay portion when people are talking about how race has affected their life. 190 00:12:42,500 --> 00:12:50,600 But what they can't have is like explicit questions stating like, I'm Asian, I'm white, I'm black. 191 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,300 Like they can't like give a lot of credence to those things. 192 00:12:54,300 --> 00:13:02,500 So many institutions, I think, will still use affirmative action to the degree that they can. 193 00:13:02,500 --> 00:13:07,900 But overall, making it harder, I think, will have a net positive effect. 194 00:13:07,900 --> 00:13:10,600 I think it was bound to happen. 195 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:19,500 The ruling was something I think that was kind of like on a fast track, to say the least. 196 00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:27,200 A lot of the stuff that they supposedly uncovered Harvard doing with the Asian students, I think, was pretty damning. 197 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:33,700 It didn't really help any of their case for that of the state. 198 00:13:33,700 --> 00:13:41,400 But what I think also is that I think it's kind of partially good because when we needed it, we needed it, right? 199 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,000 Like back in the civil rights days. 200 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:50,900 But then it just fell out of grace, like it just stopped working just like for the audience. 201 00:13:50,900 --> 00:13:58,500 You know, obviously there's like two narratives on why we signed into or why we allowed affirmative action take place. 202 00:13:58,500 --> 00:14:07,200 One will tell you that we did it just so we could have basically colleges be more diverse and like have more thought. 203 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:14,800 But the real reason was to boost communities participation and education. 204 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:24,500 And as a result, this was something that the Democratic Party was very much on board to do to kind of like equal the playing field out. 205 00:14:24,500 --> 00:14:29,100 The problem is, is that back in the day, they would do it with poor blacks and middle class blacks. 206 00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:36,300 But as time went on, they only did it with upper middle class and upper class blacks for the most part, as well as like kind of like white women. 207 00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:39,700 There were the beneficiaries of that of affirmative action. 208 00:14:39,700 --> 00:14:42,300 And it kind of just started to fail. 209 00:14:42,300 --> 00:14:54,500 And it didn't really produce the results that were needed to actually kind of like hit the hit the nail on the head and get the the actual results that the Democratic Party initially intended for. 210 00:14:54,500 --> 00:15:00,300 So as a result of that, yeah, I'm kind of, you know, I'm a little bit happy that it's gone. 211 00:15:00,300 --> 00:15:05,800 I think it's caused a lot of division in the country and it's something that wasn't really helping the groups of people I want to help. 212 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,500 So, you know me, I throw it overboard. 213 00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:10,600 Yeah, fair enough. 214 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:18,800 Fair enough. And to give a little bit more context on the implementation of affirmative action, there's two orders, two executive orders that put it in place. 215 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:27,300 It started off with Kennedy and executive order 10925 and then moved even further in terms of Lyndon B. 216 00:15:27,300 --> 00:15:40,200 Johnson kind of elaborating a little bit more and kind of what put these situations in place in terms of, you know, why people are so dissatisfied was the placement goals 217 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:49,200 aspect of making sure you're hitting certain goals to put specific minorities and women in these in these spots. 218 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:54,700 And then obviously, you know, fast forward years, years, years down the line, we are here. 219 00:15:54,700 --> 00:16:06,400 We are. And the disproportionate treatment of, you know, more specifically, black minorities compared to even Asian minorities proved just not to work. 220 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:15,700 It didn't work at all. And, you know, now we're in a situation where education educational institutions won't be implementing it. 221 00:16:15,700 --> 00:16:31,100 My question to you, because Paul mentioned it and I know it's a good point, is that the initial reason why we put it in place is to kind of provide more opportunity for these minorities to catch up for the most part, 222 00:16:31,100 --> 00:16:33,600 especially considering the situation they are now. 223 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,300 They're getting rights and everything. 224 00:16:35,300 --> 00:16:39,000 We want to put them on a pedestal to kind of even out the playing field. 225 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:51,300 Now that we take this away, first question is, do we think that this will hamper the opportunity or make it unfair for these minority communities? 226 00:16:51,300 --> 00:17:00,000 Because we do know that impoverished communities make up mostly black people, make up mostly Latino people. 227 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:08,200 So do we think that after taking this away for these institutions, this will be unfair for these type of people moving forward? 228 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:15,000 I think it will have like a minor negative effect, but nothing that's really worth of note. 229 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:27,900 The thing that I think is actually really good about this case is that it's going to bring into question legacy families that go into these schools as well, that get into these schools without much application whatsoever. 230 00:17:27,900 --> 00:17:32,900 You have a lot of these parents that, you know, they went to school and their kid can get into the school a little bit easier. 231 00:17:32,900 --> 00:17:37,000 And I think that this will allow for the limelight to be shown on that. 232 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:38,300 And I think that's going to produce a lot. 233 00:17:38,300 --> 00:17:41,300 Sorry for the dog in the background. 234 00:17:41,300 --> 00:17:45,200 Have fun over there. What do you think, Jonathan? 235 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:50,600 So I think it will have a positive effect and I can give citations. 236 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:56,700 I have the studies, like I said, I actually have them all ready to send you if you want to put them in there. 237 00:17:56,700 --> 00:18:14,800 So there was a couple of studies done in the 20 teens and one of the very famous essays that was kind of two of the people who wrote a lot of the article or wrote a lot of this did a lot of this research, wrote an article in the Atlantic talking about affirmative action. 238 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:22,400 And what they found was this specifically using like UCLA as a case study. 239 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:28,900 UCLA passed a mandate or an ordinance in the state or you. 240 00:18:28,900 --> 00:18:34,200 I think the state of California is the one that actually passed it pretty much banning affirmative action. 241 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:42,600 And initially they saw a lot of dropping in admissions from these minorities into UCLA. 242 00:18:42,600 --> 00:19:11,700 But what happened over the five years that it was banned before that was kind of repealed and then they could go back to affirmative action is actually they did not have any less minority graduates because they had the minorities who were getting voted into essentially this Academy would drop out in a couple of years because they would be from the average of about the 54th percentile to 46th percentile. 243 00:19:11,700 --> 00:19:22,700 When it comes to GPA when it comes to just overall academics while the majority of other people who are getting in of other races was in the 80s nines to 90s. 244 00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:30,800 And so what would happen is they would get put into this class into this institution that was just above their kind of pay grade. 245 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,200 I guess you'd call them. They weren't quite ready for it. 246 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:48,100 But what happened after affirmative action got banned is those people instead of dropping out firstly more black and minorities would actually accept. 247 00:19:48,100 --> 00:20:06,100 Invitations to UCLA who were in that 89th percentile and more than that those people who are in the 60s and 70s they would get into kind of those sister institutions and then when their GPA has got boosted high they would actually earn their way into UCLA. 248 00:20:06,100 --> 00:20:16,200 And so over the five year period they actually saw no drop when affirmative action have got banned in that state because they would get other ways of getting there actually on their own merit. 249 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:23,400 And so the there's actually a surplus of people who would get invited into and would actually make it into on their own merits. 250 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:29,700 But they just had to do it on a little bit of a slower process so they can actually get up and I could go on for another couple of things. 251 00:20:29,700 --> 00:20:32,200 But we've run to unpack some more of that stuff. 252 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,800 There's a bunch of other things that this article pointed out. 253 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,400 Yeah I definitely see what you're saying. 254 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:43,700 And I saw something similar in regards to California and that goes hand in hand with the with the next topic. 255 00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:52,400 Because at the end of the day even though all three of us agree that affirmative action for the most part in terms of educational institutions probably is not a good thing overall. 256 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,000 It doesn't really benefit the minority communities. 257 00:20:55,000 --> 00:21:03,200 It hasn't proven to benefit them by any means and it is unfair to other communities like the Asian-American even the white community. 258 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:10,000 With that said we still want to give the minority communities more opportunity. 259 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,700 That's the big thing over here. 260 00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:17,900 To give them more opportunity give them the ability without the resources to make it like everybody else. 261 00:21:17,900 --> 00:21:26,900 So one of the things that you mentioned Jonathan in regards to that kind of process of achieving through merit is one thing. 262 00:21:26,900 --> 00:21:40,400 I know they also talked about how the UC system also utilize something in regards to if you hit a certain percentage in terms of like your schooling. 263 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:45,200 You automatically get a spot in terms of admission to the school. 264 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:53,100 So the next question basically is for stuff like that and we can dive into a little bit more of the stuff that Jonathan mentioned. 265 00:21:53,100 --> 00:22:10,300 What alternative solutions can we come up with to make sure we are getting giving people who are from the minority communities more more opportunity to the point where it kind of equalized compared to the middle or upper middle class. 266 00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:17,500 So I think in some ways we kind of do have that. 267 00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:21,100 That is kind of why we have first your standardized testing. 268 00:22:21,100 --> 00:22:28,900 We talked about this before not a huge fan of standardized testing because I think people develop a different rates. 269 00:22:28,900 --> 00:22:39,200 But that's kind of what standardized testing is for your overall GPA to kind of gauge an assessment on how invested are you kind of in the future of your own education. 270 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:45,900 That's pretty much what GPA is for is to see like are you really wanting to continue your education past high school. 271 00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:48,200 If so, then you're going to study. 272 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,500 You're going to do your academics. 273 00:22:49,500 --> 00:22:56,300 I think GPA should in some ways be weighted more heavily than standardized tests. 274 00:22:56,300 --> 00:23:03,300 But apart from that, because we know that those are far, far, far from perfect things, we have those sister institutions. 275 00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:14,500 So if you want to go to a place like Notre Dame, a place like Ohio State, there's those kind of lower level institutions that will help you get that way. 276 00:23:14,500 --> 00:23:18,900 There is so the law school that I want to go to, which will remain nameless. 277 00:23:18,900 --> 00:23:25,100 They have a program as well that I think would be very beneficial to a lot of institutions of higher learning. 278 00:23:25,100 --> 00:23:26,500 And they could learn from this. 279 00:23:26,500 --> 00:23:28,400 And it's essentially a summer program. 280 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:41,700 So if you don't quite have the LSAT score, don't quite have the GPA that will you will need to get into it, you might qualify for their kind of summer preparation course program. 281 00:23:41,700 --> 00:23:45,900 And you apply to that and you get into that and then they'll help you. 282 00:23:45,900 --> 00:23:56,100 And if you go through the curriculum, if you go through that extra material, they'll boost your scores and then you'll be able to get admitted into the actual Academy itself. 283 00:23:56,100 --> 00:24:01,800 And I think a lot of places could go with something along those lines. 284 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:19,700 I think it comes through the financing of schools in these communities and actually getting the teachers the resources that they need to engage with a lot of these communities to actually get them up to par on the level of these other groups that we were talking about earlier. 285 00:24:19,700 --> 00:24:20,900 Right. 286 00:24:20,900 --> 00:24:33,000 You know, I could also go through like a myriad of different policies to help there be like an adequate family unit in the home for these communities as well. 287 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,400 But the list can go on and on. 288 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:41,700 The simple fact is, is the reason why they score so low is just simply because these communities are almost often neglected. 289 00:24:41,700 --> 00:24:43,100 All right. 290 00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:49,400 Some people will tell you like a point to the schools in Baltimore and they'll tell you, oh, well, you know, like these schools do get a lot of money. 291 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:50,000 Right. 292 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,500 And yeah, they do. 293 00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:53,000 And they're still under resourced. 294 00:24:53,000 --> 00:25:02,000 The biggest issue is that a lot of the money is like soaked up by like just restoring the infrastructure at the school alone. 295 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,300 That's been rotting for such a long time. 296 00:25:04,300 --> 00:25:08,600 The teachers barely make a dime and have no motivation to actually get out there and teach. 297 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:27,100 So I think this is probably like one of the best ways to actually, you know, kind of go through with old Protestant work ethic of, you know, pulling yourself up and to do that, just empowering these communities so they could teach their children to get that done and achieve the best result. 298 00:25:27,100 --> 00:25:32,500 Of course, you know, I'm fine with selecting slots for minorities as well. 299 00:25:32,500 --> 00:25:33,900 All right. 300 00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:38,100 Especially those are the significantly more disenfranchised just so we can get up on their feet. 301 00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:46,700 But that would probably only reserved for the probably some of the poorest of the poor within them that meet some sort of grade criteria so they don't drop out. 302 00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:49,200 What do you mean by slots? 303 00:25:49,200 --> 00:26:04,800 Sure. So like I'd be fine with like around maybe like 50 to 80 slots per university or something that like scales with student population for students to have a guarantee on the basis of their race. 304 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:05,800 That's something I'm fine with. 305 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,200 And it's something I believe is a way to. 306 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,600 How would that play out practically though? 307 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:16,800 Like does there have to be equal representation of of each ethnic group or how? 308 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:23,100 Yeah, it'd be it'd be prioritized based on like general socioeconomic status. 309 00:26:23,100 --> 00:26:26,900 Right. So, for example, like I would give it for poor whites as well. 310 00:26:26,900 --> 00:26:34,300 All right. So probably like poor whites, poor Latinas and poor blacks as well as like, you know, some spots for poor Asians. 311 00:26:34,300 --> 00:26:39,100 But the big area would probably be between poor whites and poor blacks. 312 00:26:39,100 --> 00:26:43,700 Those would be the two communities I would want to like have in service for this. 313 00:26:43,700 --> 00:26:55,900 Like so, for example, like for poor whites, I'd probably focus on areas of Appalachia as like a focus area for getting students into schools and bringing their communities more wealth and new industry. 314 00:26:55,900 --> 00:27:04,500 Similarly to that, like for my state of Florida, for the poor blacks, I would want people from Florida City to have guaranteed spots in schools. 315 00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:09,200 Obviously, this wouldn't be a massive spot like that of like my understanding. 316 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,500 And John, you could probably like correct me on this, but the affirmative action seedings were actually pretty large. 317 00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:21,500 Like a lot of the guarantees that they gave could really embolden populations to kind of like shift within the schools. 318 00:27:21,500 --> 00:27:26,200 Right. So like you could have quite a few beneficiaries of affirmative action. 319 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:37,600 Mine is something that's probably a little bit smaller, but would be specifically targeted on communities by the school faculty to do like poverty alleviation in them. 320 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:44,700 Right. So like you would look for suitable candidates that could become motivated enough to move back to the communities and actually produce wealth for it. 321 00:27:44,700 --> 00:27:47,900 That'd be like my modem of it. 322 00:27:47,900 --> 00:27:58,200 So for the for the individuals that kind of acquire said slots, would you have a GPA threshold? 323 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,000 Would you have a course? Yeah. So, yeah. 324 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,500 So the number one thing, right, is I don't want these children to actually waste their education. 325 00:28:05,500 --> 00:28:06,900 Right. That's like the biggest thing. 326 00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:15,100 So I still want these students to produce like something of worth through their education. 327 00:28:15,100 --> 00:28:20,600 Additionally, you know, this is something like I'll say that a lot of my liberal colleagues are probably sneering at me. 328 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:25,000 I think that if you are going to take the program, you should be limited to a certain set of majors. 329 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:35,000 Right. Probably that of, you know, I'm biased, of course, but something like political science so you can get into political infrastructure, anything in STEM, of course. 330 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,700 And then no arts. That's what I say. No arts. 331 00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:41,300 Some arts like for the music's and stuff like that. 332 00:28:41,300 --> 00:28:45,500 But I think the social sciences, I mean, I'm a big skeptic basket weaving. 333 00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:48,200 Yeah. No basket weaving. No gender studies. 334 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,600 No lesbian dance theory. You know, like none of that. 335 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:57,300 Right. For me, like I'm a big skeptic of sociology and stuff like that. 336 00:28:57,300 --> 00:29:03,500 When I was in university, I started with them a lot and I believe they sink institutions more than float them. 337 00:29:03,500 --> 00:29:06,600 So, yeah, I would I'd keep it very limited for these. 338 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:12,100 It'll be coming for my degree. Yeah, dude, you know, like you're you're one of the good ones, Jonathan. 339 00:29:12,100 --> 00:29:16,600 No, I'm criminal justice, which is just one step away. 340 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,200 It's one step away from sociology. 341 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:26,100 It's really just a criminology degree, but you don't get to call yourself a criminologist until you give them like seventy thousand more dollars. 342 00:29:26,100 --> 00:29:31,700 Sure. But your motive of research is a lot more like was like antiquated. 343 00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:37,200 It's like it has like more like that, like it can actually be replicated. 344 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,900 It's a pretty it's a pretty good solid mix of psychology and sociology. 345 00:29:41,900 --> 00:29:48,100 I would say exactly. Whereas sociology is something that I'm sure you've heard of the replication crisis, but we could get that later. 346 00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:51,500 Sorry, I'm diverting. No, no, no, you're good. 347 00:29:51,500 --> 00:29:54,500 Very interesting notion regarding the slots. 348 00:29:54,500 --> 00:30:00,400 I think that's something well, I guess my thing before I kind of dive into that a little bit more. 349 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,900 What exactly is the difference between that and affirmative action in general? 350 00:30:04,900 --> 00:30:13,000 So the the crux of affirmative action currently is it's something that only works throughout the process of admissions 351 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:18,200 and basically kind of like gives way towards students that can like write about it in their own story. 352 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:28,600 Mine would be significantly more clinical and hands on and would be something that is focused by the school administration 353 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:33,300 as an effort of like bringing forth more wealth into these communities. 354 00:30:33,300 --> 00:30:44,100 Think of it something like similar to like pro bono when you're in like a law field where you just like do this thing kind of like to like help a client or something like that or to like help your firm. 355 00:30:44,100 --> 00:30:48,400 This is something I believe is like an ethical thing and ethical imperative. 356 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:53,900 But furthermore, I think that it's something that can actually yield good benefits for the communities around us. 357 00:30:53,900 --> 00:31:03,600 Right. To bring more blacks into the middle class is something I believe is a really big piece of the agenda for the Democratic Party. 358 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,100 And it's something that I deeply care about. 359 00:31:06,100 --> 00:31:08,900 I think this would be the best option. Yeah. 360 00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:16,400 Yeah, definitely sounds a lot a much more deliberate way to kind of bring out the minority communities. 361 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:22,500 Very similar to the top percentage idea where it says if once you hit this percentage, you automatically get a spot. 362 00:31:22,500 --> 00:31:31,300 So these are outright something that the schools can implement to make sure that the right people are getting into their institutions. 363 00:31:31,300 --> 00:31:35,300 And obviously, like you said, not getting swayed by the emission process. 364 00:31:35,300 --> 00:31:47,300 And if there's a number cap, it's also making sure that the numbers aren't just like disrupting the overall emissions of individuals going to the institutions in general. 365 00:31:47,300 --> 00:31:50,300 It'll be a smaller percentage for the most part, as you said. 366 00:31:50,300 --> 00:31:54,900 So it's an interesting idea. Jonathan, you're about to say something. 367 00:31:54,900 --> 00:32:00,100 Yes, sir. I'm curious about something that Paul said that I'd be curious to get both of your ideas of it. 368 00:32:00,100 --> 00:32:07,100 He said that education will get more people into the middle class. 369 00:32:07,100 --> 00:32:13,700 So and I totally understand where you come from. Obviously, the potential to make money, right, can increase. 370 00:32:13,700 --> 00:32:27,300 But what do you guys think about just the concept that education is the only way to get into the middle class instead of something like trades, which right now particularly is paying a lot of money. 371 00:32:27,300 --> 00:32:33,400 And it's something that you go to school for for like six months sometimes, depending on the field that you get into. 372 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:44,500 Do you think pushing people that way would have a good way to if the goal, obviously, is to get people of minorities into the middle class? 373 00:32:44,500 --> 00:32:49,200 Is that not a slightly more feasible way to do it? 374 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,200 You want to go ahead, Riddle? Yeah, I could go. 375 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:58,200 So I definitely agree to an extent, right? 376 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:05,800 Because at the end of the day, trade school, we've all kind of talked about it when it comes down to plumbers, when it comes down to garbage man. 377 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:11,100 In reality, the perception of these individuals are, oh, man, they're doing all the dirty work. 378 00:33:11,100 --> 00:33:18,300 But the reality of these individuals are they're actually getting paid a quite a decent amount, especially compared to the average citizen. 379 00:33:18,300 --> 00:33:29,400 So obviously, the cultural shift of making it a thing that people should do more and more could definitely help these more impoverished communities. 380 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,100 You know, obviously, they need to get past their pride. 381 00:33:32,100 --> 00:33:35,900 Oh, I want to be a lawyer. No, I'm OK with just being a plumber, of course. 382 00:33:35,900 --> 00:33:45,400 So that's definitely something. I guess the the the idea for the interesting thing about what you said is that. 383 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:51,500 How would you rather my I guess is a question to you, Jonathan. 384 00:33:51,500 --> 00:34:00,900 Would you rather us push them towards trade or would you add on trade and whatever the suggestion of Paul said, 385 00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:08,900 where you can go into the educational field and do probably maybe a specialty or some other course or you can go to the trade field. 386 00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:14,000 So having both options versus the trade option. 387 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:23,500 So my thing is just it's it's rather unsettling to me that we're pushing college so much because kind of the effect. 388 00:34:23,500 --> 00:34:29,000 And my dad talks about this a lot. You know, he's been in the academic field for a long time. 389 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,800 Is the concept of the degree inflation, which I believe we've mentioned before. 390 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:37,100 And that's just as people keep pushing, oh, go get your degree, go get your degree. 391 00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:40,800 The degree per capita is meaning less. 392 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,300 So each individual degree means less as more and more and more and more people get it. 393 00:34:45,300 --> 00:34:54,900 And the other problem is, I'm not sure if Paul mentioned like a way to fund that kind of draw system, I guess, or the spot system. 394 00:34:54,900 --> 00:34:58,000 They're still going to have to pay for it. And if they're getting these degrees, 395 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:04,400 this is why I think Paul has the great idea of making sure that the degree will be feasible to actually make the money. 396 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,600 No basket weaving degrees. 397 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:12,700 But the problem is, is I will get my degree and then I will go and if I don't go on to higher education, 398 00:35:12,700 --> 00:35:17,100 I'll get my degree and my degree is no longer a guarantee of a job. 399 00:35:17,100 --> 00:35:22,700 So now I have, you know, thirty thousand, forty thousand, fifty thousand odd dollars of debt. 400 00:35:22,700 --> 00:35:26,800 And I don't necessarily anymore even have the guarantee of a job. 401 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:36,800 However, if I go into the trades, then I go and I pay much less for the trade schooling or at least if it's the same amount, 402 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:44,300 at least have a guarantee of a job because that is where jobs are lacking right now is in the trades because we have this weird stigma, 403 00:35:44,300 --> 00:35:49,300 which is kind of shifted, you know, blue collar people used to be the pride and soul of America. 404 00:35:49,300 --> 00:35:54,000 Now it's like, oh, we don't really look at them too much, but they make a lot more money. 405 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:58,800 Like I know a garbage man, at least in my area, makes more money than does a teacher. 406 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,600 So we have and you don't even have to be a garbage man. 407 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:07,800 You know, you can work asphalt, you can work masonry, which is very skilled and craftful labor, 408 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,500 which is something that I think we forget about. 409 00:36:09,500 --> 00:36:12,600 It still takes a lot of skill to do this kind of things. 410 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,900 You still have to go to trade school for it. 411 00:36:14,900 --> 00:36:20,700 But there's a weird stigma around that school as opposed to educational school. 412 00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:25,200 Something I wanted to like add is like kind of in our last conversation we had with Adele, 413 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:35,800 like this is kind of like what I talked about in reference to kind of like what what happened with this perception of blue collar after the Vietnam War. 414 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,800 Like so many people sent their kids to go to school so they wouldn't have to get drafted out. 415 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,700 And now it's like generated this really. 416 00:36:43,700 --> 00:36:45,000 Yeah, it's like a nightmare. 417 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:54,100 It's drafted this massive stigma against true old school work that like Jonathan has had produces so much. 418 00:36:54,100 --> 00:36:58,300 Right. Even without even going into a trade, going in just to the federal workforce. 419 00:36:58,300 --> 00:37:01,100 Jonathan talked about like waste management. 420 00:37:01,100 --> 00:37:03,000 What's even better than waste management? 421 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,300 Have you ever looked into the payment salaries of the Postal Service before? 422 00:37:06,300 --> 00:37:12,700 Right. You can make up to eighty thousand dollars a year after serving for two years in the Postal Service. 423 00:37:12,700 --> 00:37:21,300 Right. This is something that is absolutely incredible and full of, you know, like yielding benefits. 424 00:37:21,300 --> 00:37:25,100 And I totally agree, Jonathan, that this should not be the only option. 425 00:37:25,100 --> 00:37:30,000 One of the biggest things whenever I work with these kids is the thing I'll tell them is, hey, you know what? 426 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,400 I'll be honest with you, man. I don't think you'll be able to really make right. 427 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:38,400 Now, if you want to have the determination, you want to go through it, then you should, because I thought the same thing myself. 428 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,000 However, that being said, have you ever looked into these other things? 429 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,600 Have you ever looked into being a sailor, for example? 430 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,500 That's something a lot of kids in Tampa do, right? 431 00:37:45,500 --> 00:37:50,400 They like go out on the high seas and, you know, like get all their sea time and stuff like that. 432 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,100 Have you ever considered going into aviation? 433 00:37:52,100 --> 00:37:54,100 Have you ever considered going into welding? 434 00:37:54,100 --> 00:37:58,200 Or, you know, the big thing in Florida is mining or agriculture. 435 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,000 Right. So like these are things I'm always in favor of. 436 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:08,200 Right. And I would obviously, you know, be in favor of like stipends for minorities to get into these things as well. 437 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,200 Right. This is like, you know, me, I'm Mr. 438 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,100 Big Government when it comes to this. 439 00:38:13,100 --> 00:38:19,400 The only reason why I talked about the higher education stuff, right, is just because the yield is just like so incredible. 440 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:27,500 Right. Like if you get into these like specific types of fields, the only exception I make is to that of like political science. 441 00:38:27,500 --> 00:38:35,800 Right. Because I do believe that it's one of the fields that can be quite good for getting people, 442 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:41,500 regardless of ideology, into the political systems of this country, which I think we need more fresh blood. 443 00:38:41,500 --> 00:38:44,700 Right. Like I'll be honest with you guys. 444 00:38:44,700 --> 00:38:51,400 I think that it would be good to have more people in the local branches of politics that are younger. 445 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:52,700 I don't know about you, Jonathan. 446 00:38:52,700 --> 00:38:58,400 Have you when's the last time you went to your local like Republican club in your area? 447 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:03,000 I'm in a pretty Democratic city, so I don't even know if there is one. 448 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,400 I'm in political groups on my campus, though. 449 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:13,800 Okay. So, you know, like have you ever like engage with some of like the old guard before from like the Republican Party? 450 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,800 I haven't much, no. 451 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,400 This must be a Democrat thing then. 452 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,600 Yeah. 453 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,300 Yeah, I'm not sure. 454 00:39:23,300 --> 00:39:27,400 The thing with like college campus, obviously, you have to be a college student to kind of go back. 455 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:27,700 Yeah. 456 00:39:27,700 --> 00:39:35,200 So once you graduate out, you can't really get back onto the campus very easily. 457 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,000 So I haven't I haven't affiliated much with them. 458 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:47,600 So I guess my anecdote on the matter, right, is I recently went to my Democratic club for the first time because I needed to probe. 459 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:52,600 We're looking for people that we can run and stuff like that for public defender and other areas. 460 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,400 We're going for very low level office right now. 461 00:39:55,400 --> 00:40:01,000 And dude, I walked in there and I was the only person below 40 there. 462 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:02,400 And it was incredible to me. 463 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,800 Right. They don't have the workforce of volunteers anymore. 464 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:06,400 Right. 465 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,900 Meanwhile, look at my friends in the GOP. 466 00:40:08,900 --> 00:40:09,200 Right. 467 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,400 Like all my buddies are in the GOP and it's like a legion of young people. 468 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:13,900 All right. 469 00:40:13,900 --> 00:40:18,600 Like the Republican Party in Florida is just so powerful and it has all these young kids in it. 470 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,300 And that's something that was boosted through political science programs. 471 00:40:21,300 --> 00:40:21,800 Right. 472 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:26,600 So that's like the one thing I'll grant exception to because it doesn't yield much money, but I think it's something that can like do these things. 473 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:33,800 But the university system just came back on topic in the realm of STEM is something that could produce so much wealth. 474 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:34,400 Right. 475 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:39,100 So much so that I think that it could bring more wealth even into these communities alone. 476 00:40:39,100 --> 00:40:39,600 Right. 477 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:51,700 So it can go even above just like being in the middle class and can be like, you know, engaging in your community more through the financing through, you know, like contributing to museums, public infrastructure, etc. 478 00:40:51,700 --> 00:40:52,200 Right. 479 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:53,800 These are the things I want. 480 00:40:53,800 --> 00:41:01,800 But of course, I'd be in favor of like telling people to go into the federal workforce, telling people again to state workforce, telling people to go into trade school, telling people to join the military. 481 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:07,100 That's something I would without a doubt stand proudly and say to these kids, hey, this is something you need to do. 482 00:41:07,100 --> 00:41:12,300 And the idea that college is the only option is elitist and disgusting. 483 00:41:12,300 --> 00:41:12,800 Right. 484 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,000 And it's something that needs to die. 485 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,600 So, yeah, stop right there. 486 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:18,100 Yes. 487 00:41:18,100 --> 00:41:19,700 This is a little mini ad. 488 00:41:19,700 --> 00:41:20,400 Don't skip. 489 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:21,500 Don't skip. 490 00:41:21,500 --> 00:41:30,600 All I want to tell you right now is that at the end of the day, when it comes down to all the discussions I want to have, I want to be able to communicate with you, the audience. 491 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:39,000 I want to be able to relay a message and receive a message from everyone and try to come up with these great solutions that I keep on talking about. 492 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:55,600 So if you want to be part of the community, make sure you go to the website and sign up for not only the email list, so you can get weekly emails from me for the podcast episode, informational sessions, all that great stuff, but also sign up to go on my discord. 493 00:41:55,600 --> 00:42:00,000 So you can be part of the discussions, debates on my live streams. 494 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:11,200 So be sure to go to the website, www.purplepoliticalbreakdown.com and go to the email list, sign up and go to the discord and join the server. 495 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,100 Now back to the episode. 496 00:42:13,100 --> 00:42:14,900 Yeah. 497 00:42:14,900 --> 00:42:16,500 I mean, these are a lot of great points. 498 00:42:16,500 --> 00:42:24,300 And I think the problem with you Dems over there is all your young people are in part of those social groups and stay. 499 00:42:24,300 --> 00:42:25,800 Yeah. 500 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:27,000 Social advocacy. 501 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,900 So it's a man. 502 00:42:29,900 --> 00:42:31,300 It's something else for sure. 503 00:42:31,300 --> 00:42:37,300 But a lot of great points that was made in regards to these alternatives regarding affirmative action. 504 00:42:37,300 --> 00:42:55,500 I definitely think that obviously education, like you said, in terms of like schools, these minority schools in terms of giving them more resources, establishing much more in terms of what they're about to do, what they're about to get into, even just creating programs. 505 00:42:55,500 --> 00:43:03,600 And that kind of I think you mentioned one when we were talking, I forgot the program that you mentioned that kind of helps you get prepared for college. 506 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:10,300 I know that's definitely not something that's national wide because both schools that I went to didn't have that type of program. 507 00:43:10,300 --> 00:43:23,000 So establishing these type of things and for these specific individuals that are getting this slotted or getting the top percentage and getting chosen for getting full admission for said school, 508 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:28,200 making it very obvious what they're about to get into, whether it's the higher education. 509 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:40,500 And I think there's a way to kind of measure out their ambition to I think at some point at the age of like 17 or 18, you either kind of know what you want to do or you don't know what you want to do. 510 00:43:40,500 --> 00:43:47,900 And for me, when we talked about last time, I think if you don't know what you want to do, just go into college, just because it's not a good idea in my opinion. 511 00:43:47,900 --> 00:44:01,500 So that's when you provide options such as military provide options such as trade schools, like you may not know what you want to go into, but these options will yield great benefits, be way cheaper. 512 00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:08,400 And you'll come out of it a going into a relatively successful life and you can sort of relatively fulfilled life. 513 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,600 You don't need to take the gamble. 514 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,900 Maybe you'll find an interest and maybe you'll get a high paying job. 515 00:44:13,900 --> 00:44:24,100 So at that point of the 17, 16, 18 year olds at that point, you can measure their ambition to a certain extent and give them these proper resources. 516 00:44:24,100 --> 00:44:34,200 We just obviously need to make sure that if we're creating these kind of alternatives, we give them the resources to do this and the expectation. 517 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:43,200 Even though the Internet exists and they all can research it themselves, the expectation for them to do these type of research is unrealistic. 518 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:50,800 They're not going to do it unless you have like a parent that's like always like there for them, helping them every step of the way. 519 00:44:50,800 --> 00:45:03,400 But individually, especially in these minority communities where more than likely their parents are not trying to help them and not really doesn't even really know how to help them in the first place. 520 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:08,700 It's unrealistic for them to kind of be able to do this individually or even with their family members. 521 00:45:08,700 --> 00:45:16,000 So having programs to educate them on their options should be incentivized much more at the end of the day. 522 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:23,700 So a lot of potential ways that these minority communities can grow out of the situation they're in. 523 00:45:23,700 --> 00:45:26,600 I know you're about to say something, Jonathan. 524 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:34,100 Yeah, I was going to say, like, especially with an option like the military, you know, if you decide you want to go, you don't know what you want to do. 525 00:45:34,100 --> 00:45:40,200 But I'm 17, 18, you join the military, you know, you said a couple of years they'll pay for your college when you decide, you know what? 526 00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:41,700 I do want to go to college. 527 00:45:41,700 --> 00:45:44,500 They'll pay for it, which is another great option. 528 00:45:44,500 --> 00:45:47,400 That's kind of getting the best of both worlds. 529 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,500 So that gives you a loan for a home as well. 530 00:45:50,500 --> 00:45:51,800 They will. Yeah. 531 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:52,700 Yeah. Yeah. 532 00:45:52,700 --> 00:45:54,800 There's a different options for the military. 533 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:55,900 You can go active duty. 534 00:45:55,900 --> 00:45:56,900 They'll pay for everything. 535 00:45:56,900 --> 00:46:04,200 You go reservist where it's more part time and they'll give you some money, more money, depending on what branch you're in. 536 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:05,900 Don't join the Marine Corps. 537 00:46:05,900 --> 00:46:07,000 Probably join the Air Force. 538 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,500 I'm just being honest and being completely objective here. 539 00:46:09,500 --> 00:46:11,700 So with that, absolutely. 540 00:46:11,700 --> 00:46:13,000 There you go. 541 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:14,000 Coastside right there. 542 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,000 There's definitely options out there. 543 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:21,600 If you are a high school student and you're really thinking, I don't know if I want to be a lawyer. 544 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,100 I don't know if I want to be a doctor. 545 00:46:23,100 --> 00:46:29,000 Even if you want to be a politician or if you want to kind of learn more about political science. 546 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:34,500 The discussion on if you should go to school just for political science is there. 547 00:46:34,500 --> 00:46:41,500 I definitely think people should be involved more in politics, but I think all that knowledge that they learn in college can be learned in high school personally. 548 00:46:41,500 --> 00:46:44,200 So that's that's kind of where I fall in regards to that. 549 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:52,800 So with that said, I kind of agree with that, like especially like if you want to learn about political science, you know, 550 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,400 you could get the political science degree. 551 00:46:55,400 --> 00:47:04,000 I would say get like a political philosophy degree, which will teach you like the fundamentals of why we even have politics as opposed to. 552 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:10,600 I know Paul will probably be irate with the statement, but a political science degree. 553 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:16,000 Take a lot of science classes is a hyped up sociology degree. 554 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:17,800 You're going to hate that. He's going to hate that. 555 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:19,800 I know. Sorry. 556 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:27,400 But like getting a classical education, I was just having I had a guest on my podcast who's a classicist and he quote. 557 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:38,500 He gave a book that I don't have at the top of my head, but I wrote them all down where they did a study on stem majors and then classical or liberal arts majors who went to medical school. 558 00:47:38,500 --> 00:47:41,500 And in the first year, the stem majors did better. 559 00:47:41,500 --> 00:47:52,100 But in all the subsequent years of medical school, the classical educational, the liberal arts degree majors actually did better than the stem majors in that particular field 560 00:47:52,100 --> 00:47:58,400 because they teach you how to think they teach you the fundaments of, you know, pretty much everything. 561 00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:04,000 So in a classic liberal arts degree, they kind of give you a background on anything and everything. 562 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:13,800 And when it comes to politics, I think, you know, political philosophy falls under that classical degree, which you'll start with all of the great thinkers of the West and learn to think how they think. 563 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,300 And then you'll get actually get a better leg up. 564 00:48:16,300 --> 00:48:25,000 Yeah, realistically, I mean, back in my other school before I kind of transferred, I was a poli sci philosophy double major. 565 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,600 So I know we were talking about and then I was like, I want to go to law school. 566 00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:34,700 And it was like, by default, I chose political science, but inherently doesn't matter what major you choose. 567 00:48:34,700 --> 00:48:40,400 And then in reality, what I was learning is how the government work in the history of America. 568 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:45,400 So I just like think those are probably just things you could just learn in high school if I'm being completely honest. 569 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:58,400 And but when you go into the more intricate thought processes like logic and reasoning course, for example, and like you said, political philosophy and philosophy in general. 570 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:11,200 And when you go into this level of like higher thinking, I think when you enter those stages where you really have to think very critically on how things work, those are things that will take time. 571 00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:16,200 I don't think these are things that an immature teenager will be able to understand for sure. 572 00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:20,700 So I definitely I don't know if I 100 percent agree, but I definitely get what you're saying. 573 00:49:20,700 --> 00:49:24,900 That's what I'll say. I get what you're saying. Paul, you want to push back before we move on? 574 00:49:24,900 --> 00:49:30,600 Yeah, of course. So just like play defense for our good people. 575 00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:40,400 I think that it actually introduces a lot of problem solving skills throughout it, especially in our specific analysis of certain areas of the world. 576 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:48,000 Right. So obviously, if you take like a basic level, like one thousand or two thousand level political science class, you're not going to get anything from it. 577 00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:57,500 Right. It's garbage. It's something that is just kind of like to maybe see if you're interested in the subject matter and the professors just don't care whatsoever. 578 00:49:57,500 --> 00:50:12,100 Right. But when you get into international relations stuff, for example, when you get into things like, for example, colonialism, post colonialism, when you get into studies of things like nationalism. 579 00:50:12,100 --> 00:50:21,700 Right. These are areas I think that actually yield a lot of very interesting problem solving skills, not just because of like the historical example of those that kind of like did the problem solving themselves. 580 00:50:21,700 --> 00:50:25,600 But it makes gears in your head turn and how you would make your ideal state. 581 00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:31,000 And as you know, something that to like relate to it is something that can help you become like a better leader. 582 00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:37,300 Right. Because you have like a different form of thought, because you have like you're like actually pushing yourself to be better. 583 00:50:37,300 --> 00:50:42,200 I'll tell you one thing, right, guys, like a lot of kids in my class, they just like mirrored marks all day. Right. 584 00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,500 They would like talk about marks or angles. 585 00:50:45,500 --> 00:50:48,200 The people are into philosophy would talk about Hegelianism. 586 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:57,200 Right. And for me, the number one thing that I always did was I always look to these figures that we talked about in our classes, either good or bad. 587 00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:01,000 And I said, what did they get wrong? Right. Like, what was the problem with their experiment? 588 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,200 I thought about it from the context of that an American. Right. 589 00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,500 Why is the American experiment going so well? 590 00:51:06,500 --> 00:51:12,600 And the number one class that really made me start thinking about this was we did an entire class on Turkey. 591 00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:20,600 And it just fundamentally changed everything about the way I believe about like the nation and the state. 592 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:28,400 Right. And maybe. 593 00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:35,700 Appreciate this, no, Turkey, it's like a very secular atheistic state that brutalizes religious people. 594 00:51:35,700 --> 00:51:40,300 I'm very empathetic to the Muslim population there because of it, because, you know, I always say what if it was me? 595 00:51:40,300 --> 00:51:44,400 All right. But these are things that can really help that problem solving. 596 00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,600 Obviously, I will throw Jonathan a bone. 597 00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:53,600 I think some of the classical stuff can probably make you a little bit of a better problem solver just on like a per capita basis. 598 00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:59,700 Right. But that being said, and I'm sure Jonathan would agree, political science can also do the same thing. 599 00:51:59,700 --> 00:52:01,400 Maybe it's a lesser degree. 600 00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:06,700 Right. To me, I just think that like I love the studies in general. 601 00:52:06,700 --> 00:52:11,400 I really like the people that go into the thing, the people that go into the stuff I can go into, 602 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,400 which is being the bookworms and the researchers. 603 00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:18,600 Right. Because those people play important roles in politics and policy and campaigning. 604 00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:20,800 And I think it's pretty good. 605 00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,600 Yeah. Granted, is it as good as some of the other stuff? 606 00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:24,900 Probably not. So, yeah. 607 00:52:24,900 --> 00:52:30,200 One thing I will add just to kind of side with Paul there for a second. 608 00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:36,200 I am sure that it varies vastly based on what institution you go to. 609 00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:43,100 So, I guess I'll be gracious and backtrack a little bit. 610 00:52:43,100 --> 00:52:50,800 At my institution, a political science degree is basically just a sociology degree. 611 00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:57,100 And so, I'm sure that other institutions have much better political science programs. 612 00:52:57,100 --> 00:53:01,700 I don't want to bash mine too much. I'm sure it is also good. 613 00:53:01,700 --> 00:53:04,900 But having encountered a lot of the political science majors, 614 00:53:04,900 --> 00:53:09,100 I don't have a lot of hope for my particular political science program. 615 00:53:09,100 --> 00:53:11,200 But I'm sure other ones are much better. 616 00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:15,800 And I'm sure it depends greatly based on what school you go to. 617 00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,200 One more thing just really quickly. 618 00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:23,600 I will say there's this like depressing thing that's happening to political science now, right? 619 00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:30,100 Which is it's like kind of like heading into this modem of, 620 00:53:30,100 --> 00:53:32,700 or like this kind of like this like path, right? 621 00:53:32,700 --> 00:53:35,900 And there's like a fork at the road where you have to pick one or two. 622 00:53:35,900 --> 00:53:38,900 Back in the day used to be three, but I'll explain what the one and two is. 623 00:53:38,900 --> 00:53:41,200 So, the first one is being a researcher, right? 624 00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:44,800 Which I have absolutely massive amounts of respect for. 625 00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:47,700 Because, you know, the thing with political science research, 626 00:53:47,700 --> 00:53:52,000 unlike a lot of the sociology stuff, is that a lot of our studies can be replicated, right? 627 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:57,500 And furthermore, the thing we always try to say is we don't try to say, 628 00:53:57,500 --> 00:53:59,900 you know, this is the way the things are, right? 629 00:53:59,900 --> 00:54:03,000 We just say this is the way things were at that certain time, 630 00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:04,700 and it's like subject to change, right? 631 00:54:04,700 --> 00:54:07,200 So you can do that, or you can become a lawyer, right? 632 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:10,400 The problem with political science now is it's kind of like dipped off. 633 00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,900 And it used to be something where you could have an easy access 634 00:54:13,900 --> 00:54:16,800 straight into the political world as well, right? 635 00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:21,800 The number one thing that people that majored in political science back in 1965 would do, 636 00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:25,100 is it would immediately apply for governments within the State Department, right? 637 00:54:25,100 --> 00:54:32,000 Now, obviously, I think that the institutions have suffered from some ideological depravity, right? 638 00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,900 I think that a lot of them suffer from, you know, 639 00:54:34,900 --> 00:54:39,500 like some of the anti-American saber rattling and stuff like that, right? 640 00:54:39,500 --> 00:54:43,100 Or like some elements of Marxist indoctrination. 641 00:54:43,100 --> 00:54:48,000 But that being said, it's something that I think is hopefully going to come back 642 00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:54,000 after people realize that these two options aren't something that actually yields your program money, right? 643 00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,900 Because the political science programs throughout history have always been something 644 00:54:57,900 --> 00:55:02,000 that's been boosted by politicians themselves from both parties, right? 645 00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,200 I was very fortunate to meet a prominent GOP donor 646 00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:10,400 that actually donated around $300,000 to my school just to keep our program alive. 647 00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,600 And I mean, I'll tell you, man, like I'll reach across the aisle 648 00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:14,700 and kiss that guy on the forehead any day of the week, right? 649 00:55:14,700 --> 00:55:18,300 I'm absolutely glad that he graced my presence and helped my program 650 00:55:18,300 --> 00:55:22,700 because I probably wouldn't have had the degree by the time if he didn't show up. 651 00:55:22,700 --> 00:55:24,200 So yeah, that's all I want to say. 652 00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,300 Thank you. Fair enough. 653 00:55:26,300 --> 00:55:29,800 Yeah. Last thing I want to say before we kind of move on to the next topic 654 00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:36,800 is that I definitely think very similar to what Jonathan said in regards to it depends on the institution. 655 00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:39,900 I do think it depends on how it's taught, of course. 656 00:55:39,900 --> 00:55:43,500 I mean, obviously, you can go down the route where it's like what happened, 657 00:55:43,500 --> 00:55:46,900 how it happened, but like Paul mentioned, 658 00:55:46,900 --> 00:55:50,900 what really is important for these discussions and what should be the most important 659 00:55:50,900 --> 00:55:56,200 once you hit a the higher institutions in my opinion is why it happened. 660 00:55:56,200 --> 00:56:00,300 Why did this happen based on said XYZ? 661 00:56:00,300 --> 00:56:04,100 And that's more important because it obviously incentivizes critical thinking. 662 00:56:04,100 --> 00:56:10,100 I'm just really unsure how many institutions really focus on the Y instead of focusing on how and what. 663 00:56:10,100 --> 00:56:14,500 So that's kind of the big concern for me. 664 00:56:14,500 --> 00:56:20,500 And then the added portion in regards to what Paul said in the job route, 665 00:56:20,500 --> 00:56:23,400 if you get a political science degree is apparent. 666 00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:27,200 I mean, when I got when I was getting in my political science degree, 667 00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:28,900 I was going the lawyer route. 668 00:56:28,900 --> 00:56:32,400 But in terms of anybody else that was doing the political science degree, 669 00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,300 I mean, they're kind of just like winging it. 670 00:56:34,300 --> 00:56:37,900 They knew they were interested in politics and they knew and they got this degree. 671 00:56:37,900 --> 00:56:42,900 But it doesn't really guarantee that you're going to get in the political landscape 672 00:56:42,900 --> 00:56:46,300 unless you do like internships, 673 00:56:46,300 --> 00:56:50,900 unless you do go and actually meet these individuals. 674 00:56:50,900 --> 00:56:56,700 If not, if you just go and apply for a job and say I have a political science major, 675 00:56:56,700 --> 00:56:58,700 these these these places won't care. 676 00:56:58,700 --> 00:57:00,100 They won't care. 677 00:57:00,100 --> 00:57:04,700 So I do think that's a very interesting point and I very much agree to that. 678 00:57:04,700 --> 00:57:07,600 So let's say some something you said really stuck out with me. 679 00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:12,100 I guess there is like a fourth group of people like enter the program. 680 00:57:12,100 --> 00:57:16,400 There's this thing I noticed where it's people that can't get past their 681 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:20,500 their introductory level courses for like business and marketing. 682 00:57:20,500 --> 00:57:23,800 And they just like pick up political science as a means to like get through school. 683 00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,900 I'm sure Jonathan, you must have seen this in criminology as well, 684 00:57:26,900 --> 00:57:30,600 because I know sociology and criminology suffer from this stuff like rapidly as much as 685 00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:34,100 political science. Right. Can you expand upon it by any chance? 686 00:57:34,100 --> 00:57:39,200 You know, there's a lot of people that enter the program and they wanted to do history. 687 00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:40,400 They wanted to do English. 688 00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,300 They wanted to do something a little bit more aggressive. 689 00:57:43,300 --> 00:57:46,800 And then they just or there's a couple of people that I talked to that are just like, 690 00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:52,200 yeah, I just the pamphlet looked the coolest when they went through and like grabbed all the 691 00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:54,600 data. And so they have no bearing. 692 00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:57,500 And so there's actually somebody who talks about this a lot. 693 00:57:57,500 --> 00:58:01,300 His name is James Lindsay and he talks a lot about, 694 00:58:01,300 --> 00:58:06,300 you know, this idea of education where all of these very low grade, 695 00:58:06,300 --> 00:58:12,200 you know, college admins and these very low grade low testing, 696 00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:16,400 I should say students who go through the PhD because some of these people who I just 697 00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:19,700 mentioned who literally just have the pamphlet look the coolest, 698 00:58:19,700 --> 00:58:24,700 they ended up going and getting their PhD in criminology or in criminal justice or in 699 00:58:24,700 --> 00:58:28,000 sociology. And they're really not invested in the program. 700 00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:30,900 I'm sure this sort of thing happens with political science as well. 701 00:58:30,900 --> 00:58:35,700 And they just go through that program with actually no real passion for the subject. 702 00:58:35,700 --> 00:58:37,700 So they do horrible jobs in their dissertations. 703 00:58:37,700 --> 00:58:41,800 They just great by but all they know is what they did their dissertation on. 704 00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:43,900 They never read a lot of the literature. 705 00:58:43,900 --> 00:58:45,800 And so and then that just perpetuates. 706 00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:50,700 That's how we get a lot of these Marxist ideologies inside of schools because, 707 00:58:50,700 --> 00:58:52,700 you know, the people want to get their PhD. 708 00:58:52,700 --> 00:58:55,500 Sometimes they don't really do a very good job. 709 00:58:55,500 --> 00:58:59,100 They're just skating by and then that's how we get these ideological, 710 00:58:59,100 --> 00:59:02,000 you know, kind of just factories, 711 00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:09,500 I guess you could call them. I think a bigger part that can it contributes to it is just 712 00:59:09,500 --> 00:59:11,800 like with like the ideologues in particular, 713 00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:14,800 those are the people that usually actually get into the field of study because they have 714 00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:19,400 interest in it. The biggest issue I have is not like the Marxist or anything like that. 715 00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:22,600 The biggest issue I have are the people that sit idly by and just say nothing. 716 00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:26,000 Right. Because like at least some Marxists pick a side, 717 00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:30,800 right? Like at least at least at least the darkest place in hell is those who maintain 718 00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:32,000 their neutrality in a time. 719 00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:36,000 I'm right. Like it's like the bipartisanship conversation all over again, 720 00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,300 right? Like we have our differences. 721 00:59:38,300 --> 00:59:41,500 So why right? Like this is like a real thing that exists and you know, 722 00:59:41,500 --> 00:59:43,800 pick one but dude like I'll never forget. 723 00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:50,400 I did this international conflict theory class and we had the we did a classroom activity 724 00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,800 where we like do different nations to sort of like model UN. 725 00:59:53,800 --> 01:00:00,700 And I was just in absolute complete control of my nation because my peers knew nothing 726 01:00:00,700 --> 01:00:02,700 what to do. They didn't know the policy of our nation, 727 01:00:02,700 --> 01:00:06,700 right? Which we had this previously read for they didn't know about anything. 728 01:00:06,700 --> 01:00:08,700 I was really going on right and granted, 729 01:00:08,700 --> 01:00:16,200 you know, like I wasn't even that that enlightened per se like I wasn't even that engaged. 730 01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:20,500 But at least I still like put my effort out there and it was the same for all the other groups, 731 01:00:20,500 --> 01:00:24,500 right? There'd be probably one person that kind of like carried the entire team and it's 732 01:00:24,500 --> 01:00:28,200 just it's really depressing to see because like for example, 733 01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:31,200 whenever my professor would ask like hey who wants to raise their hand? 734 01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,100 I'd be that weird kid that would stand up or like raise my hand. 735 01:00:34,100 --> 01:00:38,300 So yeah, I think I can ask the question professor and then when he wanted someone else to do 736 01:00:38,300 --> 01:00:40,300 it. No one else would do it at all. 737 01:00:40,300 --> 01:00:45,800 It's just sad, right? But the sad thing is that those people all my classes you say him 738 01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:47,100 happens in all my classes. 739 01:00:47,100 --> 01:00:51,000 Yeah, exactly. And the sad part is that those are the people that also keep the program 740 01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:56,300 alive, right? And we're like stuck in this like funding trap where we often like rely 741 01:00:56,300 --> 01:00:59,700 on lemmings that don't really care about the subject matter in the first place. 742 01:00:59,700 --> 01:01:03,600 Just keep it afloat right while it's already like burning itself alive, 743 01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:07,400 you know, so like it sucks like it feels like there's nowhere to go. 744 01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:15,700 But I still am an optimist and I still think that we can return to that like 50s 60s era 745 01:01:15,700 --> 01:01:17,500 of political science. 746 01:01:17,500 --> 01:01:21,500 I'm not really sure what I could say for sociology. 747 01:01:21,500 --> 01:01:24,400 I think that's condemned unfortunately. 748 01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:25,800 Yeah, literally. 749 01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:29,800 I like watching like I'm watching Carthage on fire right now. 750 01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,600 Like what like I don't know. 751 01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:36,600 Like I just I feel like it's something that could really produce a lot, 752 01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:42,100 especially considering that both parties are becoming so powerful now and they're becoming 753 01:01:42,100 --> 01:01:44,000 significantly more motivated. 754 01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:48,500 That's like the one thing I'll say that was so good about 2016 in particular is that I 755 01:01:48,500 --> 01:01:53,500 think they've said that party participation has gone up right more people are engaged 756 01:01:53,500 --> 01:01:56,900 in politics and that is always good, right? 757 01:01:56,900 --> 01:02:02,100 The more people that you have that means the more goals that you can execute as your your 758 01:02:02,100 --> 01:02:05,100 party and that is always always good, right? 759 01:02:05,100 --> 01:02:08,900 It'll be especially great when we win this 2024 election. 760 01:02:08,900 --> 01:02:11,800 But I'm telling you like it's something that rock. 761 01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:14,700 Hey, you'll see don't worry. 762 01:02:14,700 --> 01:02:16,400 But yeah, that's all I got to say. 763 01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:23,900 I mean, it is also very interesting considering the like you said participation has gone up. 764 01:02:23,900 --> 01:02:30,100 But then you can also argue the participation has gone up knows way, way, way less about 765 01:02:30,100 --> 01:02:34,000 politics and compared to like prior generations. 766 01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:37,800 They're fed all their political knowledge from social media Twitter. 767 01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:38,200 Yeah. 768 01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:40,800 So, you know, I'm not to push back on this or don't. 769 01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:44,500 I really think that it's actually quite the opposite people that were engaged in politics 770 01:02:44,500 --> 01:02:47,800 back in the day were pretty bad linings. 771 01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:52,200 So like for the most part like you had some of like probably the poorest the poor Americans 772 01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:55,300 working in these things with little to no education behind them. 773 01:02:55,300 --> 01:03:00,300 I will say they probably had more grounded ethics is something that's definitely true. 774 01:03:00,300 --> 01:03:05,000 But that being said, I really don't think the information was that good. 775 01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:09,900 I think now if anything, it's actually a lot better with it. 776 01:03:09,900 --> 01:03:17,600 But because like for example, I read this like excerpt about a Democratic Party convention 777 01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:21,100 in I think it's like 1968. 778 01:03:21,100 --> 01:03:27,400 I think I was like LBJ days and a lot of the participants there would just blindly follow 779 01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:31,100 quite literally everything and there would be no party disagreement. 780 01:03:31,100 --> 01:03:34,600 The only party disagreements that would ever arise were on the basis of if black people 781 01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:36,900 could vote or not with the Democratic Party. 782 01:03:36,900 --> 01:03:38,400 Right. 783 01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:41,600 Nowadays you actually see more dissenting opinions occur. 784 01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:42,600 Right. 785 01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:47,700 And although I'm for party unity, I still think it's good because we still have an abundance 786 01:03:47,700 --> 01:03:48,700 of information out there. 787 01:03:48,700 --> 01:03:50,900 So that's my take on that. 788 01:03:50,900 --> 01:03:52,900 That's actually a very good point. 789 01:03:52,900 --> 01:04:01,500 My my kind of stance in regards to it is very much similar in the sense that the more people 790 01:04:01,500 --> 01:04:05,600 are getting fed the information in a very, very particular way. 791 01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:09,800 So that kind of goes hand in hand when you said in terms of grounded ethics in terms 792 01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,800 of information, obviously they're getting more information. 793 01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:19,100 It do in part to social media, of course, and media in general and the content that 794 01:04:19,100 --> 01:04:23,140 they're consuming in terms of the content creators feeding them their ideology, their 795 01:04:23,140 --> 01:04:25,440 point of view. 796 01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:30,480 But I guess the question really is if we're growing in terms of people who are interested 797 01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:37,600 in politics, but kind of said ideology in a specific way and don't really know the intricacies 798 01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:42,780 of the politics that they're consuming because like we talked about, political science majors 799 01:04:42,780 --> 01:04:47,400 inherently is losing their value in a sense. 800 01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:55,260 Is that a good thing in terms of politics or will that be a detriment for politics moving 801 01:04:55,260 --> 01:04:57,100 forward? 802 01:04:57,100 --> 01:05:02,520 I think it's a mixed bag because like I said earlier, the one thing I was good about some 803 01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:08,480 of the early days is that when you had people engaged in politics, people, I guess, felt 804 01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:11,760 less compelled to have like a voice. 805 01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:14,880 And they were more interested in like really duking it out. 806 01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:18,880 This is the thing I admire about the GOP currently, because everyone I know in the Republican 807 01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:23,880 Party, even if you don't agree with Trump or something like that, if Trump is the nominee, 808 01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:26,840 then Trump's the freaking nominee and you don't just quit. 809 01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:30,760 Whereas with us, for example, I know people that just straight up dropped out of the campaign 810 01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:31,760 when Bernie lost. 811 01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:32,760 Right. 812 01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:35,120 And it's just like, you know, like what are we doing? 813 01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:38,160 So I think that there are benefits to it. 814 01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:45,580 But at the same time, the thing that I do like a lot of this is that it's allowed for 815 01:05:45,580 --> 01:05:52,440 this massive amount of information to come through and deeply benefit the younger people 816 01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:57,280 in the party like myself that want to do a lot of restructuring and get rid of a lot 817 01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:02,160 of the cringe within the Democratic Party that we know won't be electable in the first 818 01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:04,680 place, that we know is just like genuinely stupid. 819 01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:05,680 Right. 820 01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:08,280 Like, for example, the big thing that a lot of people like myself want to do is we want 821 01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:10,920 to get rid of the gun issue in the Democratic Party. 822 01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:11,920 Right. 823 01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:15,320 We believe that the Democrats talking about guns all the time is just stupid and it's 824 01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,320 something that's not worth our time. 825 01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:23,280 We believe that a lot of the resources produced like through the Internet can actually help 826 01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:27,440 us in this because the general form of thought that we've embraced with it is that this is 827 01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:30,680 something that is grounded in resistance against a tyrannical state. 828 01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:31,680 Right. 829 01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:33,840 It's not something that's for just personal self-protection. 830 01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:35,660 And that's something that the Internet has provided for us. 831 01:06:35,660 --> 01:06:39,440 So I think that's something that's actually really deeply benefited us in that regard. 832 01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:40,440 Right. 833 01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:41,440 But it still has its negatives. 834 01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:42,440 Right. 835 01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:46,960 I mean, party unity is really bad right now in our party and we're still recovering from 836 01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:49,600 it even while we own the administration. 837 01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:51,000 Fair enough. 838 01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:52,000 Fair enough. 839 01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:53,000 All right. 840 01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:58,080 So I want to move on to the the work aspect because obviously when it comes to affirmative 841 01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:01,000 action, there's two ways you could think about it. 842 01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:05,160 Affirmative action in the educational area and obviously affirmative action in the workplace 843 01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:10,680 to make sure there's enough diversity for like we've talked about earlier, minorities 844 01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:16,780 and women to kind of catch up to the white men back in the day, of course. 845 01:07:16,780 --> 01:07:21,520 So when it comes down to affirmative action in the workplace, from what I've found, they 846 01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:27,480 kind of go through a set of criteria and kind of picking people. 847 01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:36,520 They have the kind of top or headlines for each one or analysis, comparison, responsibility, 848 01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:42,600 problem areas, corrective actions and internal auditing or reporting systems. 849 01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:48,200 So the analysis part is that they go to a profile of that company that identifies the 850 01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:54,920 gender and race, ethnicity of each employee in the context of an organization chart with 851 01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:55,920 the job roles. 852 01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:59,700 And I'm actually not going to read all of this, but just know that when it comes down 853 01:07:59,700 --> 01:08:04,640 to these, there it's a lot more it seems to me it's a lot more deliberate to make sure 854 01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:10,600 that the minorities or the women that they are hiring is not necessarily taking the jobs 855 01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:13,200 of the white person per se. 856 01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:18,640 What they're saying is they're trying to meet a threshold based on the labor labor force 857 01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:23,320 to make sure that there's not a discrepancy of minorities compared to white people in 858 01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:28,840 the labor force versus what this company has, what this company is actually hiring into 859 01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:30,840 their workforce, if that makes sense. 860 01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:35,840 So that's how they approach it from my understanding. 861 01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:40,680 So in general, what are your thoughts and do you think because there's actually some 862 01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:42,620 concern from the left. 863 01:08:42,620 --> 01:08:48,040 Do you think that affirmative action should or will I guess you can answer both should 864 01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:53,480 and and or or should or will get rid of affirmative action? 865 01:08:53,480 --> 01:08:57,000 Can you rephrase the question one more time? 866 01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:00,800 I know that was that was that was a terrible question. 867 01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:08,120 So there's two parts of this question, should affirmative action be taken out of the workplace? 868 01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:13,960 And the second part of the action is more so what will the Supreme Court do? 869 01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:17,560 So will affirmative action be taken out of the workplace? 870 01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:21,800 So this is one is based on your personal opinion and two is based off the precedent of the 871 01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:23,440 educational system. 872 01:09:23,440 --> 01:09:28,600 And will this continue forward and take it out of the workplace moving forward? 873 01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:31,080 You can go ahead, John. 874 01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:32,800 So should it? 875 01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:35,600 I would say yes. 876 01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:41,400 And the reason there's a plethora of reasons, I guess one of the biggest ones that I would 877 01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:50,200 say a reason is because when they talk about, you know, diversity, they don't mean the good 878 01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:57,000 kind of diversity in as much as diversity of thought, which is what all of the studies, 879 01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:01,480 everything has shown is good for innovation. 880 01:10:01,480 --> 01:10:08,360 So we have a lot of diversity of thought on this particular podcast. 881 01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:14,360 You know, between the three of us, we're all very different ideologically. 882 01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:18,200 Or I wouldn't like to say any of us are ideological per se. 883 01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:22,480 But you know, my meaning that is the good kind of diversity, the diversity that actually 884 01:10:22,480 --> 01:10:24,200 brings innovation. 885 01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:29,920 You can have a panel of people that how all different races and ethnicities. 886 01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:36,120 But if they're all of the exact same concept of thought, then it's not going to be a particularly 887 01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:38,180 innovative panel of anything. 888 01:10:38,180 --> 01:10:44,760 You can put that panel of people in any field and they will not be any more innovative because 889 01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:46,840 they have different skin color. 890 01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:48,680 This is what Martin Luther King Jr. brought up. 891 01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:52,680 And you know, he wants people to be judged on the content of their character, not the 892 01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:54,680 color of their skin. 893 01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:59,680 The color of your skin doesn't necessarily say much about how you think when you're in 894 01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:00,960 America. 895 01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:06,720 You know, it kind of does because of political polarization. 896 01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:12,880 But by and large, because we are kind of have the American culture here, different cultures 897 01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:15,140 will have different ways of thinking about things. 898 01:11:15,140 --> 01:11:20,640 But America is one of the only places where we kind of have this American culture that 899 01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:27,600 constantly, there's not many other nations that have the level of diversity of ethnicity 900 01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:30,160 that we have in America. 901 01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:36,520 Which goes to show that because of that fact, there's such a wide swath of ethnicities, 902 01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:38,560 anybody can kind of think anything. 903 01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:42,160 And it doesn't really matter what your skin is not going to determine how you think about 904 01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:43,560 a certain thing. 905 01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:49,840 So hiring people as diversity being good based on the ethnicity is not good. 906 01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:51,720 It is not beneficial. 907 01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:55,520 It is not, it doesn't really serve a great purpose. 908 01:11:55,520 --> 01:12:00,760 It also, I think the same similar arguments can be made on education. 909 01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:04,960 The same similar kind of arguments can be made for jobs as well. 910 01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:09,080 If you give somebody a job that they're not qualified for, they'll either quit or kind 911 01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:12,320 of sink that position because they're not qualified for it. 912 01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:14,000 They're not going to be competent at it. 913 01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:16,320 It doesn't mean they can't be eventually though. 914 01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:17,660 I do want to clarify that. 915 01:12:17,660 --> 01:12:21,560 It's like with the educational thing, when you actually begin to hire somebody based 916 01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:25,720 on their merits, I think it does something psychologically when they know that I got 917 01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:28,080 this because I deserve to get it. 918 01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:33,120 And they'll be more eager to actually work up towards the higher position regardless. 919 01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:38,200 Well, what do you think Paul? 920 01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:41,600 Well, so like obviously I'm like for it, right? 921 01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:48,120 But I'm like, I'm kind of for it in like, in the sense that like very like basic level 922 01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:54,240 jobs as well as like, you know, kind of like entry level jobs to the federal bureaus, for 923 01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:59,160 example, should have these areas that are there, right? 924 01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:02,500 Now as for managerial positions, right? 925 01:13:02,500 --> 01:13:09,560 As for promotions, those should all be areas that are worked through and like, you know, 926 01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:11,440 people have to really show who they are, right? 927 01:13:11,440 --> 01:13:16,480 So I think the David quotas for management is something I'm just wholesaling against, 928 01:13:16,480 --> 01:13:17,480 right? 929 01:13:17,480 --> 01:13:19,680 Jonathan brings up a great point about creativity. 930 01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:23,720 And I think that's a way you kind of hinder it when you set up these expectations for 931 01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:28,120 people on the basis of just the way they look, right? 932 01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:32,920 But that being said, I want them to have representation in that workforce in the first place. 933 01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:35,040 I want them to be able to be in it, right? 934 01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:37,520 To give them the opportunity to be in it. 935 01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:41,640 And I think to give them the opportunity, I think is quite through a handout. 936 01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:44,600 That's like obviously democratic ethos, right? 937 01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:47,880 We believe in the welfare state giving it to them. 938 01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:49,520 Go ahead, John. 939 01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:51,840 So I'm, I would ask, so what do you think about this? 940 01:13:51,840 --> 01:14:01,120 So my dad is in a position in which his, his area, his, his department, if they want more 941 01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:08,680 diversity, what they actually have to do is hire more straight white men. 942 01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:10,920 Because it's like so diversified already, I assume. 943 01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:11,920 Yeah. 944 01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:15,160 It's, it's just replete with everybody, but straight white men. 945 01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:16,160 Yeah. 946 01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:18,680 So like, I'm not necessarily like for that, right? 947 01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:21,360 Like I, I have like a very limited approach to it. 948 01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:25,600 The big thing I want, I guess like people would call tokenizing in a sense, but it is, 949 01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:28,200 I guess the way I would go through with it, right? 950 01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:32,720 I would want to have like a certain amount of quota for those getting into the agency 951 01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:34,640 and then stopping it right then and there, right? 952 01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:37,160 Like after that, everything is through your own individual. 953 01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:43,640 So you, you would not be pro hiring more straight white men so that it's actually, you know, 954 01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:46,360 like an equitable outcome of that position? 955 01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:52,720 Well, I think in the case of what your dad's like employment is like, I think that's definitely 956 01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:57,040 something that's more of a status quo extreme that's existing today. 957 01:14:57,040 --> 01:14:58,040 Right. 958 01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:01,120 And mine would have significantly more controls upon it. 959 01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:05,200 For example, I wouldn't be filling gender basis for this. 960 01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:07,880 I wouldn't be filling sex for this. 961 01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:10,040 For me, it's all race and class, right? 962 01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:12,520 And it sticks and stays there. 963 01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:18,760 I don't believe in any of this stuff where they say we need to give like homosexuals 964 01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:21,800 more opportunity, right? 965 01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:25,880 These people already have opportunity and you can call me a bigot for saying it, but 966 01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:28,400 the data agrees with me, right? 967 01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:33,700 So everything for me is just about class and race and it sticks and stays there. 968 01:15:33,700 --> 01:15:35,480 So I guess to answer the question, sure. 969 01:15:35,480 --> 01:15:36,480 Right. 970 01:15:36,480 --> 01:15:39,400 But within my parameters. 971 01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:45,280 So I think there's some something to what Paul said, and it's kind of like a more of 972 01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:51,920 a devil's advocate point, but I do think there's something to it and more so the lower end 973 01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:52,920 jobs, obviously. 974 01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:58,040 And like Paul said, in terms of like the higher end jobs, for the most part, those should 975 01:15:58,040 --> 01:15:59,960 all be merit based. 976 01:15:59,960 --> 01:16:01,600 But the lower end jobs, right? 977 01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:08,480 The very entry level jobs where, you know, someone from a minor community might try to 978 01:16:08,480 --> 01:16:16,880 apply for, for example, a McDonald's or a job to let's say they want to drive the UPS 979 01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:19,560 truck or be a truck driver or whatever. 980 01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:26,040 So something that I've heard is that sometimes there is some implicit bias when people are 981 01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:29,560 reading applications and they and they see a certain name. 982 01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:35,880 They see a name of a minority, a black person, and automatically assumptions are being made 983 01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:38,240 and are being made in their mind. 984 01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:42,200 And I could definitely see it because at the end of the day, in a perfect utopia, sure, 985 01:16:42,200 --> 01:16:45,580 I would say that all merit all the time. 986 01:16:45,580 --> 01:16:51,160 But in reality, these biases, especially in these more minority communities, is this guy 987 01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:54,480 might be a criminal because he has this name. 988 01:16:54,480 --> 01:17:01,720 And that assumption will enter a hiring manager's mind, especially one that doesn't have a level 989 01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:05,680 of structure to kind of make sure this this isn't the case. 990 01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:06,680 Right. 991 01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:10,680 And these lower end jobs that there's no one going to be looking over their head and make 992 01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:13,760 sure that they're hiring certain people. 993 01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:18,600 If there's no affirmative action taking place, not all the time anyway. 994 01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:25,280 So I've heard the argument and I've heard I've seen I've heard the data in regards to 995 01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:32,560 it that there is some inherent bias against hiring people with a, for example, black name. 996 01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:39,920 So my question to you, Paul, in these circumstances, do you believe that having an affirmative 997 01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:46,360 action policy to make sure that this implicit bias is not there could help prevent these 998 01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:47,360 circumstances? 999 01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:48,360 Absolutely. 1000 01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:50,160 One hundred percent. 1001 01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:58,560 The presence alone is what shifts all social like social norms and policy in general. 1002 01:17:58,560 --> 01:17:59,560 Right. 1003 01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:05,080 I think the exposure to black Americans would be beneficial for these companies to stop 1004 01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:07,680 this discrimination that actively occurs. 1005 01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:12,640 Similarly to that, I'm sure you've probably read about the hair stuff as well. 1006 01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:13,640 Right. 1007 01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:16,920 Where employers actively regulate blacks hairs. 1008 01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:19,600 That's something that is just needs to go. 1009 01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:23,820 I think that this policy with the exposure, with the experience that is gained through 1010 01:18:23,820 --> 01:18:29,440 working alongside members of this community is something that could be very beneficial. 1011 01:18:29,440 --> 01:18:30,440 Absolutely. 1012 01:18:30,440 --> 01:18:33,240 Well, it will absolutely solve the problem. 1013 01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:34,240 No. 1014 01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:36,280 Will it help it a lot? 1015 01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:37,280 Yes. 1016 01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:38,280 This is a concept. 1017 01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:44,200 And if it's OK, I play a little bit of a logic game that I got from reading these articles 1018 01:18:44,200 --> 01:18:49,920 because they talk about this phenomenon, right, of people reading the applications and then 1019 01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:54,400 being less favorable towards minorities. 1020 01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:58,920 And where this comes from is actually from affirmative action. 1021 01:18:58,920 --> 01:19:01,400 Affirmative action is kind of the cause of this problem. 1022 01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:03,320 And we'll get there in a second. 1023 01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:09,120 But what tends to happen is you have an affirmative action hire. 1024 01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:10,120 Right. 1025 01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:16,560 So this be in education, which is the context of this particular story that it was extrapolating. 1026 01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:20,200 But you could kind of apply it to work as well. 1027 01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:25,800 If you take somebody and their affirmative action hire, you take somebody in this who 1028 01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:29,320 has a competency, let's say of forty six percent. 1029 01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:30,960 So he's in the forty six percentile. 1030 01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:34,000 So he's he's below average. 1031 01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:37,560 But because of affirmative action, he gets a job that's much higher. 1032 01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:44,200 And what happens is then that person, you know, if it's in schooling, he might get additional 1033 01:19:44,200 --> 01:19:45,200 assistance. 1034 01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:46,200 Right. 1035 01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:48,960 But tutelage by the by the teacher. 1036 01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:54,640 But during class, they're still teaching towards the majority of the class, which he still 1037 01:19:54,640 --> 01:19:57,720 falls below in the forty six percentile. 1038 01:19:57,720 --> 01:20:00,080 So they're teaching towards the middle of the class and he's trying to get it. 1039 01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:02,240 But he quit very quickly, falls behind. 1040 01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:03,240 Same could be said for work. 1041 01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:07,920 If you hire somebody in kind of a middle position, but he's a little bit below average, affirmative 1042 01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:11,960 action hire, he's not going to do as good of a job. 1043 01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:16,840 Doesn't matter if the if the the the manager kind of helps him along a little bit when 1044 01:20:16,840 --> 01:20:20,000 it comes to the day to day work, he just won't be able to do it because he doesn't have the 1045 01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:22,520 proficiency for it. 1046 01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:26,040 What will end up happening in both scenarios, whether it be work and education, is that 1047 01:20:26,040 --> 01:20:28,080 person will drop out. 1048 01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:30,160 He will quit or he will leave. 1049 01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:33,400 He will go to a different program or he'll go to a different school. 1050 01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:37,960 He'll quit and get a lower tier job that's more fitted towards his actual competency. 1051 01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:43,280 Then what happens based on that is, oh, the stereotype was true. 1052 01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:44,960 Minorities are a worse worker. 1053 01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:47,120 They are more likely to quit. 1054 01:20:47,120 --> 01:20:51,800 They're the reinforces all of those very same negative stereotypes that existed from the 1055 01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:52,880 outset. 1056 01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:57,800 And it's kind of a self completing cycle with affirmative action because affirmative 1057 01:20:57,800 --> 01:21:04,400 action hire fundamentally is putting somebody who's not qualified for that job in that job. 1058 01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:06,000 And then there's this mismatch. 1059 01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:08,920 That's what the the authors of that article in research call it. 1060 01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:14,520 This mismatching is people who are not qualified for the job are getting the job. 1061 01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:20,640 And this is more so the case for education, but it can logically be applied towards working 1062 01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:22,320 when it comes to working. 1063 01:21:22,320 --> 01:21:27,000 There is a lot more grace, I would say, in that area because you can do depending on 1064 01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:32,280 the position, you can do a lot more one on one work and try to help somebody up. 1065 01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:36,280 But what would be better in the first place is to get rid of those kind of policies and 1066 01:21:36,280 --> 01:21:40,600 make sure that you're going to get somebody who is actually competent for the job. 1067 01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:46,640 And when you're not trying to artificially bolster numbers of particular people, I think 1068 01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:51,200 they'll actually naturally draw up when you treat them like they want to be treated and 1069 01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:56,040 deserve to be treated, which is fairly and equally under the law, but you're not trying 1070 01:21:56,040 --> 01:21:58,180 to make them something that they're not. 1071 01:21:58,180 --> 01:22:00,120 We had this discussion with politicians. 1072 01:22:00,120 --> 01:22:04,520 We have a big issue with making people who into somebody who they are not. 1073 01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:10,560 When you try to do that, people know fundamentally that I did not get this job based on merit. 1074 01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:13,680 They inherently know it and they inherently act that way. 1075 01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:18,120 And if you have somebody who knows that they're not actually qualified for the job, they're 1076 01:22:18,120 --> 01:22:21,920 not going to all of a sudden become qualified for the job because they got the job. 1077 01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:25,040 You earn the job and then you do well at the job, you excel in the job and you earn the 1078 01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:26,040 promotion. 1079 01:22:26,040 --> 01:22:31,200 Well, although it might be true that there are many circumstances in which there is like 1080 01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:39,080 negative stimuli that's associated with blacks because of the after effects of the after 1081 01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:44,440 effects of affirmative action, I still think that the primary area by which we should try 1082 01:22:44,440 --> 01:22:47,800 to solve this problem is through affirmative action. 1083 01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:51,880 I think that the negative stimulus is something that's going to always exist there because 1084 01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:54,880 it is going to be a natural consequence of it. 1085 01:22:54,880 --> 01:23:00,080 That being said, these are things that are just genuinely grown out, grown out of over 1086 01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:01,080 time. 1087 01:23:01,080 --> 01:23:02,080 Right. 1088 01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:06,100 We saw it with social factors that had already started in the 1950s though, and we're still 1089 01:23:06,100 --> 01:23:08,040 facing the negative consequences of it. 1090 01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:09,040 Sure. 1091 01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:11,240 I don't think we grew out of it at a much lesser level though. 1092 01:23:11,240 --> 01:23:12,240 Right. 1093 01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:13,240 You and I would both agree. 1094 01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:17,240 We've taken quite a few miles in our shoes and we've gotten pretty far. 1095 01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:18,700 Correct. 1096 01:23:18,700 --> 01:23:20,640 On the basis of affirmative action? 1097 01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:21,640 Absolutely. 1098 01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:22,640 Yeah. 1099 01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:23,640 I don't think so. 1100 01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:25,480 I think it's had a net negative effect. 1101 01:23:25,480 --> 01:23:29,960 What were the primary reasons why whites did not hire blacks going into the 1950s? 1102 01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:33,040 I can tell you it was on the basis of quality of work. 1103 01:23:33,040 --> 01:23:35,080 It was on the basis of criminality. 1104 01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:44,720 It was on the basis of mixing the races and it was on the basis of just like general anti-integrationist 1105 01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:46,400 policy. 1106 01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:50,360 We have now moved into an area where only two of these things somewhat remain. 1107 01:23:50,360 --> 01:23:51,360 Right. 1108 01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:55,160 We're still somewhat with a very heavy S on it. 1109 01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:56,160 Right. 1110 01:23:56,160 --> 01:24:00,280 I believe that this is something that is still beneficial. 1111 01:24:00,280 --> 01:24:05,640 Although it might be true that there is going to be negative association that occurs because 1112 01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:13,240 of the handout that is given and what it associates that group of people with, I still think it's 1113 01:24:13,240 --> 01:24:15,480 a necessary thing to happen. 1114 01:24:15,480 --> 01:24:16,480 Right. 1115 01:24:16,480 --> 01:24:20,440 I think it's something that we could eventually bleed out, especially if we make it something 1116 01:24:20,440 --> 01:24:24,000 like, for example, if we can't pass it all the way through as a mandated thing and it 1117 01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:28,600 has to go into a volunteer thing, if we give businesses subsidies for it, I think that's 1118 01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:31,320 something that could especially sweeten up the deal. 1119 01:24:31,320 --> 01:24:32,320 Yeah. 1120 01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:36,400 A few caveats I don't want to make in regards to what you said, Jonathan. 1121 01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:42,320 In general, personally, I don't think you could say it was a net negative personally 1122 01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:47,520 because like what Paul said, the initial reason why I was implemented in the first place is 1123 01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:51,760 because of the discrimination for both women and minorities. 1124 01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:57,360 So obviously, initially, the idea wasn't even to make it to the point where they have placement 1125 01:24:57,360 --> 01:25:02,440 hold where a certain amount of X, Y, Z needs to be put in place. 1126 01:25:02,440 --> 01:25:04,840 That's something that was established a little bit later on. 1127 01:25:04,840 --> 01:25:09,840 But the idea is to prevent these terrible communities where especially they are kind 1128 01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:16,040 of lingering from the effects of maybe a Jim Crow period or just maybe a period where they 1129 01:25:16,040 --> 01:25:20,160 just really just don't like a certain type of minority communities. 1130 01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:24,300 And especially when you look at education, I mean, the amount of women that are getting 1131 01:25:24,300 --> 01:25:28,320 an education and succeeding, I mean, it's at the point where they're kind of trumping 1132 01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:30,040 men at this rate. 1133 01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:31,040 Right. 1134 01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:32,560 So in general, I think it's done what is done. 1135 01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:34,920 I think at this point, it's gone too far. 1136 01:25:34,920 --> 01:25:38,600 And because of it, we got rid of it, obviously. 1137 01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:42,120 In the workplace, I think that's a little bit more nuanced. 1138 01:25:42,120 --> 01:25:48,520 I did say prior that I agree in a mid-level job, affirmative action shouldn't be like 1139 01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:50,000 a part of that. 1140 01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:55,680 So I'm kind of trying to focus more so on the entry level ones, because the people we're 1141 01:25:55,680 --> 01:26:00,840 trying to help are the minority communities. 1142 01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:04,520 These are the communities that we're trying to help because the people who are like a 1143 01:26:04,520 --> 01:26:10,600 middle of this middle middle class or whatever, they don't they should be really focusing 1144 01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:12,700 on what they're capable of doing. 1145 01:26:12,700 --> 01:26:18,960 And they shouldn't be struggling in a situation where they're incapable of getting any job. 1146 01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:23,320 So the minority communities where they're struggling in whatever situation, whether 1147 01:26:23,320 --> 01:26:28,600 it's supporting your kids, whether it's being in an environment full of crime, whether it's 1148 01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:32,260 trying to put food on the table, they obviously need jobs. 1149 01:26:32,260 --> 01:26:38,160 And they obviously, if they are discriminated at any point throughout their job process, 1150 01:26:38,160 --> 01:26:42,480 that can definitely ruin the livelihood of everybody they're taking care of. 1151 01:26:42,480 --> 01:26:49,760 So what we're trying to prevent with a potential policy is that these entry level jobs, which 1152 01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:54,800 inherently require little to no skill, let's be honest, you don't need to be skilled to 1153 01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:56,320 work at McDonald's, right? 1154 01:26:56,320 --> 01:26:57,600 You don't need to be. 1155 01:26:57,600 --> 01:26:59,840 And you learn a skill very quickly. 1156 01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:05,040 We're going to make sure that this hiring manager, which again, let's be honest, these 1157 01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:12,280 hiring managers for a like McDonald's or something aren't inherently the most reliable people. 1158 01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:17,040 So we want to make sure that they're implicit bias doesn't get in the way of hiring the 1159 01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:18,040 hiring. 1160 01:27:18,040 --> 01:27:19,040 Here's my question. 1161 01:27:19,040 --> 01:27:21,200 The amount of people into that position. 1162 01:27:21,200 --> 01:27:26,680 I, I totally, I totally understand the idea. 1163 01:27:26,680 --> 01:27:32,760 My question is this, practically speaking, is McDonald's the place that's going like 1164 01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:40,000 those low level jobs are those the places that are discriminating based on names? 1165 01:27:40,000 --> 01:27:41,000 Probably not. 1166 01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:46,640 Anybody can go get a job at a McDonald's just about, just about, they can go get jobs at 1167 01:27:46,640 --> 01:27:47,640 these places. 1168 01:27:47,640 --> 01:27:49,360 It's, I would argue, and I could be wrong. 1169 01:27:49,360 --> 01:27:50,440 I could totally be wrong. 1170 01:27:50,440 --> 01:27:51,680 I haven't looked at the numbers. 1171 01:27:51,680 --> 01:27:52,960 I haven't looked at the statistics. 1172 01:27:52,960 --> 01:27:54,320 I'll be honest with that. 1173 01:27:54,320 --> 01:27:59,360 But if I was a betting man, I would bet that it's those kinds of institutions that are 1174 01:27:59,360 --> 01:28:03,000 not the ones suffering from that implicit bias. 1175 01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:06,040 It's the higher up jobs that are going to do that anyways. 1176 01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:11,240 The people who are hiring for the managerial staff, the people that are hiring, like my 1177 01:28:11,240 --> 01:28:16,640 dad is a very high level professor and he's the one who they are discriminating. 1178 01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:21,240 They're the ones who actually have the funds to be able to use affirmative action. 1179 01:28:21,240 --> 01:28:27,440 Because it's some, to some extent, those lower level places, they don't have a lot of money 1180 01:28:27,440 --> 01:28:32,480 to just throw around and waste on, I wouldn't say waste, that's a strong word, but they're 1181 01:28:32,480 --> 01:28:35,880 not the ones, let's say, they're not the ones who are suffering from those issues. 1182 01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:38,320 They're just hiring whoever they can get. 1183 01:28:38,320 --> 01:28:43,480 Especially right now when the place is like, I mean, the Taco Bell down my street is paying 1184 01:28:43,480 --> 01:28:48,080 like $18 an hour for people to just work in their kitchen. 1185 01:28:48,080 --> 01:28:49,980 They're not the ones really discriminating. 1186 01:28:49,980 --> 01:28:55,080 It's the higher level jobs that are the ones who are using affirmative action anyways. 1187 01:28:55,080 --> 01:29:01,160 Right, so like I said, in those situations, then I'm fine with kind of removing it because 1188 01:29:01,160 --> 01:29:06,320 I think me and Paul both said that once you're starting to move up, once you're starting 1189 01:29:06,320 --> 01:29:11,280 where these skills are much more valuable, it should be completely merit based. 1190 01:29:11,280 --> 01:29:12,280 Right? 1191 01:29:12,280 --> 01:29:16,560 So I also can't really tell you the perfect statistics because this is something that 1192 01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:20,900 I've heard and this is something that I've heard the data points in regards to this and 1193 01:29:20,900 --> 01:29:25,000 obviously there's all papers that you've seen in regards to it as well. 1194 01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:33,380 But the measure of putting this policy in place is to prevent an action that could potentially 1195 01:29:33,380 --> 01:29:41,600 take place because at the end of the day, in these situations where a potential discrimination 1196 01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:47,080 situation could happen, because to say, I'll agree in a lot of areas, more than likely 1197 01:29:47,080 --> 01:29:48,860 they'll just hire whatever. 1198 01:29:48,860 --> 01:29:53,260 But let's say there's an area where there's a lot of crime for certain minorities, whether 1199 01:29:53,260 --> 01:29:58,880 it's a Latino or a black person, and then they see someone that's Latino or black trying 1200 01:29:58,880 --> 01:30:02,400 to apply and there's going to be an automatic assumption. 1201 01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:05,720 So we got to have preventable measures in that circumstance to make sure that they're 1202 01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:08,960 not kind of hiring based off their feelings. 1203 01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:13,320 And I just don't believe, and I think you said it too, I don't believe there's enough 1204 01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:18,000 checks in terms of top down to prevent them from hiring on their feeling because it's 1205 01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:21,160 a low level job that people don't really care about. 1206 01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:23,440 I have a question for both of you. 1207 01:30:23,440 --> 01:30:27,560 I've actually been reading a book by a guy named Thomas Sowell, who has done a lot of 1208 01:30:27,560 --> 01:30:28,560 research. 1209 01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:32,160 Thomas Sowell, yeah, I know who he is. 1210 01:30:32,160 --> 01:30:33,160 Yeah. 1211 01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:40,360 So he actually talks about the idea how when people stopped doing criminal background checks, 1212 01:30:40,360 --> 01:30:47,280 black people, particularly black people, minorities in general, actually got less jobs because 1213 01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:50,400 they did exactly what you just said. 1214 01:30:50,400 --> 01:30:51,680 They made assumptions. 1215 01:30:51,680 --> 01:30:56,160 They assumed that black people, oh, they're going to commit more crimes, they're not going 1216 01:30:56,160 --> 01:30:57,160 to hire them. 1217 01:30:57,160 --> 01:31:01,000 But more black people actually got jobs when they did criminal background checks, even 1218 01:31:01,000 --> 01:31:06,640 though certain political parties did not like that concept. 1219 01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:10,520 And the same sort of thing bore out with affirmative action in schooling. 1220 01:31:10,520 --> 01:31:16,440 There was actually more people, very marginally different, slightly more people at UCLA that 1221 01:31:16,440 --> 01:31:22,440 actually got in of minorities that got in and actually graduated when they got rid of 1222 01:31:22,440 --> 01:31:28,080 affirmative action because it gave people a feeling that I'm actually getting this job 1223 01:31:28,080 --> 01:31:29,400 based on my merit. 1224 01:31:29,400 --> 01:31:34,840 I'm actually getting this degree because I earned this degree. 1225 01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:42,600 More of the actual 80th, 70th, 90th percentile minorities accepted invitations to UCLA when 1226 01:31:42,600 --> 01:31:47,440 they knew that they were not admitting based on affirmative action because they wanted 1227 01:31:47,440 --> 01:31:49,360 that prestige that goes with it. 1228 01:31:49,360 --> 01:31:52,300 I think the same thing bears out when it comes to jobs. 1229 01:31:52,300 --> 01:31:56,760 When you're saying we are not hiring based on affirmative action, you will get more people 1230 01:31:56,760 --> 01:32:03,400 who apply because I think people inherently want the prestige and the pride, the good 1231 01:32:03,400 --> 01:32:11,360 kind of pride that comes with getting a job based on your merit. 1232 01:32:11,360 --> 01:32:16,080 I don't have much to say to it because I'm not necessarily familiar with the rest of 1233 01:32:16,080 --> 01:32:18,280 the argument, but I will agree with Jonathan. 1234 01:32:18,280 --> 01:32:23,360 I think Solow makes a great point on the background check thing. 1235 01:32:23,360 --> 01:32:25,520 It was a mistake of the Democratic Party. 1236 01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:27,600 I'll be completely honest about it. 1237 01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:31,800 It was completely, I think our heart was in the right place, but it didn't really work 1238 01:32:31,800 --> 01:32:32,800 out. 1239 01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:37,560 The best thing about these background checks is that they actually gave black people a 1240 01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:39,680 way to prove their innocence. 1241 01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:45,240 He gave them the ability to say, and I want to clarify, I think it's a tragedy that that's 1242 01:32:45,240 --> 01:32:49,720 a necessary step, but we live in a fallen world. 1243 01:32:49,720 --> 01:32:53,640 And unfortunately, at some point we do have to be pragmatic. 1244 01:32:53,640 --> 01:32:59,400 I think it's a very tragic thing that that is necessary in the first place, but it is. 1245 01:32:59,400 --> 01:33:01,360 Yeah, a hundred percent. 1246 01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:05,840 I've seen a couple of discussions with Tomasol as well, and I also agree with the background 1247 01:33:05,840 --> 01:33:06,840 checks. 1248 01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:11,120 They're a way to make sure that they don't have to rely on affirmative action, like you 1249 01:33:11,120 --> 01:33:12,120 said. 1250 01:33:12,120 --> 01:33:14,960 And I think that any way to make sure that the right people are getting the job should 1251 01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:15,960 be put in place. 1252 01:33:15,960 --> 01:33:17,920 So I'm for that as well. 1253 01:33:17,920 --> 01:33:22,080 Tomasol's also talked about a lot of other things in terms of welfare. 1254 01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:26,920 So that's a discussion in the future when we start talking about welfare. 1255 01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:33,480 And curious on thoughts regarding that, of course. 1256 01:33:33,480 --> 01:33:43,200 I guess my last question before we wrap things up is when it comes down to these more... 1257 01:33:43,200 --> 01:33:44,200 How do you feel? 1258 01:33:44,200 --> 01:33:47,080 I guess this is a better way to frame the question. 1259 01:33:47,080 --> 01:33:57,600 How do you feel about organizations out there that hire based on very specific ideologies? 1260 01:33:57,600 --> 01:34:02,280 And I'm not talking about like a Democrat just hiring Democrats or Republicans just 1261 01:34:02,280 --> 01:34:04,600 hiring Republicans. 1262 01:34:04,600 --> 01:34:09,920 I'm talking about in the situations where even beyond that, and not just ideologies, 1263 01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:16,720 but just identities in general, where we have women groups just hiring women or black people 1264 01:34:16,720 --> 01:34:24,700 just hiring black people or LGBTQ just hiring LGBTQ people for their organizations. 1265 01:34:24,700 --> 01:34:30,720 How do we feel about potentially more and more groups kind of hiring the people that 1266 01:34:30,720 --> 01:34:32,880 are similar to them? 1267 01:34:32,880 --> 01:34:34,780 How do we feel about that going forward? 1268 01:34:34,780 --> 01:34:35,840 It's a nightmare. 1269 01:34:35,840 --> 01:34:38,720 I'll tell you this like plain and simple, right? 1270 01:34:38,720 --> 01:34:45,000 It's something that doesn't actually pan out that well. 1271 01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:48,880 My English isn't too good in this. 1272 01:34:48,880 --> 01:34:52,840 How do you say like hegemon or no, what's the word? 1273 01:34:52,840 --> 01:34:53,840 Hegemony? 1274 01:34:53,840 --> 01:34:57,360 No, no, no, no, not hegemonic. 1275 01:34:57,360 --> 01:35:01,280 Not an entire group of like one people in one area. 1276 01:35:01,280 --> 01:35:02,280 What's the word for it? 1277 01:35:02,280 --> 01:35:05,360 I think it starts with an H. I forgot whatever. 1278 01:35:05,360 --> 01:35:06,960 I mean hegemony works. 1279 01:35:06,960 --> 01:35:11,360 Yeah, like there's a hegemony of like one people's in an employment area. 1280 01:35:11,360 --> 01:35:16,400 It's pretty bad when you do get a very talented person that's not of that group, right? 1281 01:35:16,400 --> 01:35:22,240 I'll tell you, I've worked with some very liberal people who gave me a hard time. 1282 01:35:22,240 --> 01:35:24,760 I felt like I was actively discriminated against. 1283 01:35:24,760 --> 01:35:28,480 I was a member of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People for 1284 01:35:28,480 --> 01:35:30,280 a while and it was good. 1285 01:35:30,280 --> 01:35:31,760 I liked it a lot. 1286 01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:36,720 And then I moved into something that was very different from that and I deeply regretted 1287 01:35:36,720 --> 01:35:37,720 it, right? 1288 01:35:37,720 --> 01:35:43,680 I was picked on for being white and it was something that I found to be an absolute nightmare. 1289 01:35:43,680 --> 01:35:48,200 Similarly, this is something that kind of buzzes in the circles that I'm in. 1290 01:35:48,200 --> 01:35:53,520 Are you guys familiar with a lot of the vet TV controversy and the black rifle coffee 1291 01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:55,200 company controversy that's been going on? 1292 01:35:55,200 --> 01:35:56,200 I do know. 1293 01:35:56,200 --> 01:35:57,960 I love black coffee. 1294 01:35:57,960 --> 01:35:58,960 Tastes delicious. 1295 01:35:58,960 --> 01:35:59,960 Yeah. 1296 01:35:59,960 --> 01:36:00,960 So I do know some of that. 1297 01:36:00,960 --> 01:36:03,320 You might have to tell me which particular. 1298 01:36:03,320 --> 01:36:08,920 You know, that one employee that they hazed. 1299 01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:10,120 I did not hear about that. 1300 01:36:10,120 --> 01:36:11,120 No. 1301 01:36:11,120 --> 01:36:12,120 Yeah. 1302 01:36:12,120 --> 01:36:16,200 So they had I think he was an airman or no, he wasn't military at all in the company. 1303 01:36:16,200 --> 01:36:20,020 And they actively were threatening this guy. 1304 01:36:20,020 --> 01:36:24,720 They were forcing him to drink large amounts of alcohol and he was a Christian. 1305 01:36:24,720 --> 01:36:27,720 They were bullying and pushing this guy around. 1306 01:36:27,720 --> 01:36:33,440 And I think that this like these atmospheres where it's like just one big group. 1307 01:36:33,440 --> 01:36:37,080 The only exception I do, of course, is a political party because that's the way it has to be. 1308 01:36:37,080 --> 01:36:40,720 That's like the way a party is. 1309 01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:43,360 For any other form of commerce. 1310 01:36:43,360 --> 01:36:45,640 I think it's an absolute nightmare. 1311 01:36:45,640 --> 01:36:50,480 I think it yields some very bad results because it leads to people getting picked on. 1312 01:36:50,480 --> 01:36:55,040 It leads to people with civil rights being infringed upon in a lot of cases, in my opinion. 1313 01:36:55,040 --> 01:36:56,600 I don't think it's something that's good. 1314 01:36:56,600 --> 01:37:01,880 I think that freedom of association can only go so far in that regard. 1315 01:37:01,880 --> 01:37:04,880 And I think that it's something that can breed toxic environments. 1316 01:37:04,880 --> 01:37:10,360 Maybe if these environments don't hire anybody at all, that's of the different group, right? 1317 01:37:10,360 --> 01:37:15,400 Then I'm still going to be against it, but I'll bite the bullet in terms of the argument 1318 01:37:15,400 --> 01:37:21,440 and saying that it won't be as bad because those people I talked about earlier won't 1319 01:37:21,440 --> 01:37:23,480 get picked on because they just won't be there. 1320 01:37:23,480 --> 01:37:30,480 But I'm still somewhat against it in virtue of the fact that I think places can grow in 1321 01:37:30,480 --> 01:37:32,920 an environment with lots of ideas. 1322 01:37:32,920 --> 01:37:33,920 Yeah. 1323 01:37:33,920 --> 01:37:37,800 So, Jonathan, before you answer that question, to kind of add on to the final point that 1324 01:37:37,800 --> 01:37:45,600 Paul made to kind of elaborate a little bit more, if a circumstance where they hire only 1325 01:37:45,600 --> 01:37:52,240 their people, does that meet that kind of threshold of the diversity of ideas that you 1326 01:37:52,240 --> 01:37:57,560 were even talking about? 1327 01:37:57,560 --> 01:38:01,320 So actually, that's the point that I was going to bring up. 1328 01:38:01,320 --> 01:38:07,680 I think if you want to create that kind of culture, I'm not particularly familiar with 1329 01:38:07,680 --> 01:38:12,120 the instance that Paul's referencing with Black Rifle Coffee. 1330 01:38:12,120 --> 01:38:13,120 I like Black Rifle Coffee. 1331 01:38:13,120 --> 01:38:14,560 It's not my favorite. 1332 01:38:14,560 --> 01:38:22,200 I prefer the coffee I roast myself because I'm a snob, but it is good coffee. 1333 01:38:22,200 --> 01:38:24,400 I'm not familiar with that. 1334 01:38:24,400 --> 01:38:28,440 With those kind of instances, I feel terrible if it happened. 1335 01:38:28,440 --> 01:38:33,200 Military people I know have their kind of carousing lifestyle that I would probably 1336 01:38:33,200 --> 01:38:38,480 be pretty scandalized if I went and just worked with a bunch of military people, I would probably 1337 01:38:38,480 --> 01:38:42,840 find it maybe kind of crass and could kind of blow that out of proportion a little bit. 1338 01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:45,160 If it is, like you said, I think that's a horrible thing. 1339 01:38:45,160 --> 01:38:48,360 I just want to make sure that I state that for the record. 1340 01:38:48,360 --> 01:38:50,720 Were they Marines? 1341 01:38:50,720 --> 01:38:51,720 I had to ask. 1342 01:38:51,720 --> 01:38:54,120 Were they Marines? 1343 01:38:54,120 --> 01:38:55,120 A lot of them. 1344 01:38:55,120 --> 01:38:58,120 Of course they're Marines. 1345 01:38:58,120 --> 01:39:02,200 Just a caveat before you say what you're going to say so people know that I'm not just picking 1346 01:39:02,200 --> 01:39:04,160 on Marines, even though I want to. 1347 01:39:04,160 --> 01:39:07,000 I used to be a Marine, so I know what I'm talking about. 1348 01:39:07,000 --> 01:39:08,240 So yeah, go ahead. 1349 01:39:08,240 --> 01:39:10,320 I posted a lawsuit for you, by the way, Jonathan. 1350 01:39:10,320 --> 01:39:11,320 Oh, beautiful. 1351 01:39:11,320 --> 01:39:12,320 Thank you. 1352 01:39:12,320 --> 01:39:16,120 Yeah, I know they've got quite a they have had a lot of lawsuits because people don't 1353 01:39:16,120 --> 01:39:17,520 like them for some reason. 1354 01:39:17,520 --> 01:39:22,720 They do kind of put off a strange vibe that I'm not a huge fan of. 1355 01:39:22,720 --> 01:39:24,840 I like supporting veteran owned businesses. 1356 01:39:24,840 --> 01:39:29,720 The coffee I typically like to buy is from a local veteran owned businesses because I'm 1357 01:39:29,720 --> 01:39:33,120 a big supporter of shopping local. 1358 01:39:33,120 --> 01:39:40,320 But if you want to have that kind of business where you hire kind of your people, I think 1359 01:39:40,320 --> 01:39:42,520 that's totally you're right. 1360 01:39:42,520 --> 01:39:47,040 If you want to do that, I don't know that that's always the best business practice, 1361 01:39:47,040 --> 01:39:48,040 though. 1362 01:39:48,040 --> 01:39:49,040 Right. 1363 01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:54,840 And, you know, I'm a big fan of Simon Sinek and his book, you know, The Infinite Game. 1364 01:39:54,840 --> 01:40:00,880 Great business advice there, and he talks about that sort of diversity of ideas. 1365 01:40:00,880 --> 01:40:06,200 And if you're just going to get all of your people in, I'm only hiring from this pool 1366 01:40:06,200 --> 01:40:07,200 of people. 1367 01:40:07,200 --> 01:40:11,500 I don't know that that's the most practical and prudent thing for you to do. 1368 01:40:11,500 --> 01:40:13,120 You can do it if you want. 1369 01:40:13,120 --> 01:40:15,080 And Black Rifle Coffee is pretty successful. 1370 01:40:15,080 --> 01:40:20,520 I think they'll probably never because they kind of boxed in their own market. 1371 01:40:20,520 --> 01:40:25,680 So they'll never really because I know people that refuse to buy Black Rifle Coffee simply 1372 01:40:25,680 --> 01:40:30,160 because they're like a pro gun sort of rabble rousing kind of crew. 1373 01:40:30,160 --> 01:40:34,440 And so they've cut off large swaths of their market because they do that. 1374 01:40:34,440 --> 01:40:38,100 And I think the same sort of thing happens with Chick-fil-A. Chick-fil-A is an explicitly 1375 01:40:38,100 --> 01:40:45,280 Christian company and they have some some forays into liberal stuff. 1376 01:40:45,280 --> 01:40:48,840 Every once in a while, I think there was a scandal going on recently with that kind of 1377 01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:49,840 thing. 1378 01:40:49,840 --> 01:40:54,680 And I know people that will not shop at or will not buy it Chick-fil-A because they're 1379 01:40:54,680 --> 01:40:58,080 a Christian company and because of the principles, they stand behind it. 1380 01:40:58,080 --> 01:41:03,820 So I think there's arguments to be made when you do kingdom based companies. 1381 01:41:03,820 --> 01:41:04,820 But that's because I'm a Christian. 1382 01:41:04,820 --> 01:41:10,500 And so I believe that God will bless your efforts when you dedicate things onto him. 1383 01:41:10,500 --> 01:41:12,660 But that's my own beliefs there. 1384 01:41:12,660 --> 01:41:13,660 Take what you will. 1385 01:41:13,660 --> 01:41:18,840 But in principle, having that diversity of thought will make you more innovative. 1386 01:41:18,840 --> 01:41:22,840 OK, so you're saying legally it's fine. 1387 01:41:22,840 --> 01:41:24,840 Principally, you don't agree with it. 1388 01:41:24,840 --> 01:41:26,840 Yeah, legally, it's fine. 1389 01:41:26,840 --> 01:41:30,440 Even like in principle, like you can do it if you want. 1390 01:41:30,440 --> 01:41:31,920 But I don't think it's prudent. 1391 01:41:31,920 --> 01:41:32,920 I don't think it's wrong. 1392 01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:38,160 But I don't think it's a prudent, let alone a business savvy move to make all the time. 1393 01:41:38,160 --> 01:41:39,160 Yeah, exactly. 1394 01:41:39,160 --> 01:41:41,400 I'm in the same boat as well. 1395 01:41:41,400 --> 01:41:47,360 Obviously, you know, I don't know where I stand in terms of like legislation on it because 1396 01:41:47,360 --> 01:41:50,280 I think it can be a very shaky subject. 1397 01:41:50,280 --> 01:41:53,080 The word I was looking for was homogenous, by the way, earlier. 1398 01:41:53,080 --> 01:41:54,880 Oh, yes. 1399 01:41:54,880 --> 01:41:55,880 Yeah. 1400 01:41:55,880 --> 01:41:58,560 But I think I'm with Jonathan on that. 1401 01:41:58,560 --> 01:42:00,120 I didn't know you're a Marine, though, Radell. 1402 01:42:00,120 --> 01:42:01,120 It's pretty interesting. 1403 01:42:01,120 --> 01:42:04,120 We should talk after the podcast a little bit. 1404 01:42:04,120 --> 01:42:05,120 All right. 1405 01:42:05,120 --> 01:42:06,120 Got you. 1406 01:42:06,120 --> 01:42:07,120 Got you. 1407 01:42:07,120 --> 01:42:08,120 Yeah. 1408 01:42:08,120 --> 01:42:09,120 I mean, legally, I see what you mean. 1409 01:42:09,120 --> 01:42:10,120 Principally, I disagree. 1410 01:42:10,120 --> 01:42:11,120 I think it's horrible. 1411 01:42:11,120 --> 01:42:14,080 I think all echo chambers are horrible ideas. 1412 01:42:14,080 --> 01:42:15,080 Every one of them. 1413 01:42:15,080 --> 01:42:17,040 I'm not a fan of any of them. 1414 01:42:17,040 --> 01:42:19,720 So parties, right? 1415 01:42:19,720 --> 01:42:21,360 I mean, I don't feel like with either. 1416 01:42:21,360 --> 01:42:23,800 So I'm not going to do that either. 1417 01:42:23,800 --> 01:42:26,920 So I don't I don't I don't like it. 1418 01:42:26,920 --> 01:42:32,340 I guess the only thing with parties, I think I would say is as long as we have a good number 1419 01:42:32,340 --> 01:42:35,880 to challenge them, you know, Democrats, Republicans can challenge each other. 1420 01:42:35,880 --> 01:42:37,320 But I think we've talked about it before. 1421 01:42:37,320 --> 01:42:39,600 I don't remember Paul, you were on. 1422 01:42:39,600 --> 01:42:45,580 But like the idea of a third party could definitely help in terms of making sure those ideas are 1423 01:42:45,580 --> 01:42:48,400 challenged properly. 1424 01:42:48,400 --> 01:42:53,880 So with that said, for the most part, I think the argument can be made for parties. 1425 01:42:53,880 --> 01:43:00,160 But for the most part, I am not a fan of echo chambers for them at all. 1426 01:43:00,160 --> 01:43:05,160 And it really has to be like an echo chamber to the point where like I agree with everything 1427 01:43:05,160 --> 01:43:06,560 that you're saying right now. 1428 01:43:06,560 --> 01:43:09,080 And that's that's what like that's one of the big problems. 1429 01:43:09,080 --> 01:43:12,640 I don't think I actually don't think that's possible. 1430 01:43:12,640 --> 01:43:16,400 I don't think like because we're all humans, we're all individuals. 1431 01:43:16,400 --> 01:43:18,860 I think when but that happens, right. 1432 01:43:18,860 --> 01:43:20,960 Not saying I'm saying that happens. 1433 01:43:20,960 --> 01:43:25,360 But I don't think it's always possible for someone to be like, I agree with every single 1434 01:43:25,360 --> 01:43:26,700 thing that you're saying. 1435 01:43:26,700 --> 01:43:31,960 I think you are just kind of giving yourself over to that ideology because like, well, 1436 01:43:31,960 --> 01:43:32,960 it fits enough. 1437 01:43:32,960 --> 01:43:34,280 So this is just who I am now. 1438 01:43:34,280 --> 01:43:38,040 And it gives you not everything, but principally everything. 1439 01:43:38,040 --> 01:43:40,280 Yeah, it is my thing. 1440 01:43:40,280 --> 01:43:46,120 Like an example where it's like, let's see, let's use the military one where it's a bunch 1441 01:43:46,120 --> 01:43:47,120 of Marines. 1442 01:43:47,120 --> 01:43:48,120 So it's a bunch of Marines. 1443 01:43:48,120 --> 01:43:49,400 Yeah, they're going to have their arguments. 1444 01:43:49,400 --> 01:43:51,520 They're going to one guy's gonna be a Cowboys fan. 1445 01:43:51,520 --> 01:43:54,760 The other one's going to be a Steelers fan. 1446 01:43:54,760 --> 01:43:58,360 But when it comes down to their principles, when it comes down to the military, when it 1447 01:43:58,360 --> 01:44:03,240 comes down to America being the number one country, when it comes down to gun rights, 1448 01:44:03,240 --> 01:44:06,960 they're all going to be the same in regards to that stuff for the most part. 1449 01:44:06,960 --> 01:44:10,160 So that's that's kind of what I mean in regards to that. 1450 01:44:10,160 --> 01:44:13,880 But yeah, that's basically all we got for today. 1451 01:44:13,880 --> 01:44:14,880 I think. 1452 01:44:14,880 --> 01:44:18,760 Oh, I guess you guys didn't answer and you guys can answer this pretty quickly. 1453 01:44:18,760 --> 01:44:26,440 Will will affirmative action be removed from the workplace after what happened to education? 1454 01:44:26,440 --> 01:44:28,320 Yes. 1455 01:44:28,320 --> 01:44:34,260 I think yes, in in in kind of theory, but no, in practice. 1456 01:44:34,260 --> 01:44:37,300 What makes you kind of believe that I like the practice angle? 1457 01:44:37,300 --> 01:44:45,240 So based on the same thing that just or Justice Roberts did with his his opinion as he created 1458 01:44:45,240 --> 01:44:47,880 that loophole, I think the same thing will happen. 1459 01:44:47,880 --> 01:44:52,920 So even though in technically in theory, affirmative action is banned in practice, it won't be 1460 01:44:52,920 --> 01:44:55,040 think the same thing will happen with jobs. 1461 01:44:55,040 --> 01:45:01,480 OK, yeah, I can see that the stipulation did kind of damage the possibility for it to go 1462 01:45:01,480 --> 01:45:02,480 away. 1463 01:45:02,480 --> 01:45:03,480 So I can see that. 1464 01:45:03,480 --> 01:45:04,480 Yeah. 1465 01:45:04,480 --> 01:45:08,080 So we'll see, it's going to take a couple of years before you kind of see the ramifications 1466 01:45:08,080 --> 01:45:13,920 of affirmative action to see if it was a good if it was a bad idea. 1467 01:45:13,920 --> 01:45:19,840 But you know, I think the day I think the mostly for for the workplace anyway, I think 1468 01:45:19,840 --> 01:45:26,840 this will mostly be important for, like I said, the lower level jobs, the smaller businesses, 1469 01:45:26,840 --> 01:45:30,120 the local owned businesses for the big corporations. 1470 01:45:30,120 --> 01:45:33,960 They will always prove diversity. 1471 01:45:33,960 --> 01:45:36,920 We know that they will always improve diversity. 1472 01:45:36,920 --> 01:45:39,680 So it really doesn't really that's not going to change. 1473 01:45:39,680 --> 01:45:41,400 So we'll see what happens, of course. 1474 01:45:41,400 --> 01:45:46,400 So that is all we got for today and today's episode, episode number 30. 1475 01:45:46,400 --> 01:45:47,400 Tune in for next week. 1476 01:45:47,400 --> 01:45:48,800 I'll give you like a little hint. 1477 01:45:48,800 --> 01:45:51,280 We got some great talks. 1478 01:45:51,280 --> 01:45:52,280 We're talking about racism. 1479 01:45:52,280 --> 01:45:55,100 We're going to talk about more America stuff. 1480 01:45:55,100 --> 01:46:02,080 Maybe maybe next Thursday we can we can have the welfare discussion potentially. 1481 01:46:02,080 --> 01:46:03,080 We'll see. 1482 01:46:03,080 --> 01:46:05,000 It's going to be an interesting conversation. 1483 01:46:05,000 --> 01:46:08,120 But I hope you guys enjoyed per usual rate of five stars. 1484 01:46:08,120 --> 01:46:11,720 If you did for us, OK, a rate of five stars. 1485 01:46:11,720 --> 01:46:17,920 Visit the website, donate if you want, leave a voice message criticizing one of us. 1486 01:46:17,920 --> 01:46:19,680 You know, you can criticize John. 1487 01:46:19,680 --> 01:46:20,680 Probably. 1488 01:46:20,680 --> 01:46:21,680 Yeah. 1489 01:46:21,680 --> 01:46:24,680 If you're progressive, you're progressive. 1490 01:46:24,680 --> 01:46:27,480 You can criticize Jonathan all you want. 1491 01:46:27,480 --> 01:46:30,860 And we'll laugh at it here on the on the show. 1492 01:46:30,860 --> 01:46:31,860 No slurs, though. 1493 01:46:31,860 --> 01:46:34,560 No more perv slurs, you know. 1494 01:46:34,560 --> 01:46:36,040 So with that said, hope you guys enjoyed. 1495 01:46:36,040 --> 01:46:37,480 You'll have a good one. 1496 01:46:37,480 --> 01:46:41,800 Take care and welcome to the purple political breakdown. 1497 01:46:41,800 --> 01:46:47,400 I am glad you are here and I'm glad you were listening to today's podcast episode. 1498 01:46:47,400 --> 01:46:53,840 My mission in each and every one of these episodes is to really focus on the solutions 1499 01:46:53,840 --> 01:46:59,920 to some of the biggest questions and most controversial topics going on in our current 1500 01:46:59,920 --> 01:47:01,040 society. 1501 01:47:01,040 --> 01:47:06,800 I feel like most of these conversations are not truly being discussed in a more logical 1502 01:47:06,800 --> 01:47:14,120 and respectful manner due to the political toxicity that goes on with both the left and 1503 01:47:14,120 --> 01:47:18,360 the right, both the Democrats and the Republicans. 1504 01:47:18,360 --> 01:47:21,200 This podcast, I don't care about any of that. 1505 01:47:21,200 --> 01:47:23,560 I am focused on the solutions. 1506 01:47:23,560 --> 01:47:26,420 I'm focused on bridging gaps. 1507 01:47:26,420 --> 01:47:31,120 If you want to join me on this journey, if you want to discuss some of the most important 1508 01:47:31,120 --> 01:47:37,680 topics, if you are tired of the political toxicity and negativity from both sides, please 1509 01:47:37,680 --> 01:47:47,400 support this channel, share the podcast and go to my website, www.purplepoliticalbreakdown.com. 1510 01:47:47,400 --> 01:47:49,040 I appreciate the support. 1511 01:47:49,040 --> 01:47:53,660 I'll continue to make content and hopefully we can start bridging these gaps and focusing 1512 01:47:53,660 --> 01:47:56,360 on real issues going on in our world.